Chatsworth Atv park

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Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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No it not NJCF property... It's private property and if you were on it... then you were trespassing!

This is the same place "Watershed Fred" aka: Fred Akers loves to go to shoot all his Anti ATV stuff.

TheBronzeMan


I altered your post to remove the photo's. If everyone keeps them in the quoted area, the page gets bloated and takes longer to load.

Getting back to the subject at hand, I can tell you as fact that most of the wet area at the link you posted is owned by the NJCF. I do not know as of yet the exact spot this occured because I have not asked, so I will not say for sure if you are wrong or right. However, I have extreme confidence in Bob's knowledge of the property that is preserved in that area, and when he gives me the exact location I can be certain I have the right facts.

Guy
 

Teegate

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Everyone, when you quote a post that has multiple photo's in it, please remove them from the quote so they are not repetitive.

Guy
 

Teegate

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Again, from a photo you can't tell; however, as a plant enthusiasts Bob knows the difference from decomposing plants and oil. I seriously doubt he would make that mistake.

Guy
 

TheBronzeMan

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Dec 9, 2007
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Well at least show a link to the property in question:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.809525,-74.23625&spn=0.022384,0.042315&t=h&z=15

Note: everything west of the Garden State Parkway and north of Rt 532 in the adjacent square is private property with the exception of the the upper stream which NJ Fish and Wildlife owns the center of that stream, but this is just the area where the old rail road crosses the stream.

The lower wetlands between Rt 532 and the property form the southern border of the property.

TheBronzeMan
 

Teegate

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Yes, I did accidently remove the link. Sorry about that. I deleted the quote tag at the end and had to go back and make alterations and must have deleted the link. Doing too much at once here :(

Guy
 

Teegate

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Well at least show a link to the property in question:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.809525,-74.23625&spn=0.022384,0.042315&t=h&z=15

Note: everything west of the Garden State Parkway and north of Rt 532 in the adjacent square is private property with the exception of the the upper stream which NJ Fish and Wildlife owns the center of that stream, but this is just the area where the old rail road crosses the stream.


TheBronzeMan

I don't believe that to be correct. Again, I have to wait for confirmation.

Guy
 

BobNJ1979

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May 31, 2007
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i think theBronzeMan has taken my place as the aggressor of the board.. he can have it .. a lot more is accomplished / better discussed if written in a peaceful manner..
 

Ben Ruset

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Listen, nobody here has to be the "aggressor" and nobody here should feel like they have to defend themselves from attack.

Keep it civil, and keep it respectful. It's been pretty good so far, lets keep it that way.
 

Teegate

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After looking over your post again, you may be correct if you are refering to the the stream just above 532 as private, which I think you are. However, much of the upper stream where the train crosses I believe is NJCF property.

Guy
 

G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
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Burlington County
No... it not NJCF property... It's private property and if you were on it... then you were trespassing!

Also the oily residue in the water isn’t from off roads vehicles, but decomposing plants.

Or another way to look at it is those tracks are going to create an abundance of new life in a dieing bog.

Russell... It’s this the same place "Watershed Fred" aka: Fred Akers loves to go to shoot all his Anti ATV stuff?

TheBronzeMan

Bronze, sorry, I haven't been to the site in a while. I don't know where Fred goes to shoot photos of ORV damage. His stomping grounds are mostly much farther south.

I can tell you this, though, that particular kind of scene is not hard to find. And the habitat is exceptional. Sunny, open, wet places are where most of the imperilled plants are found. Nobody can say what was killed there, or how long it may take to recover, especially when you consider that the same guys may come back every week, or another bunch may start coming in there.

I have seen plenty of wetland communities where all the vegetation has been destroyed, and if it begins to come back, it keeps getting destroyed, obviously, over and over again.

This is a good example of why we need to step up enforcement regardless of how the parks process unfolds. I'm willing to bet, the guys who did that are going to keep on riding like that, no matter how many parks get built.

We need to get photos of them in the act whenever we can, and we need to use our cell phones to turn them in. Cameras and phones might not help the law enforcement guys to identify them or catch them, but at least it increases the odds, and it only takes a few minutes.
 

Teegate

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and we need to use our cell phones to turn them in.

I always have thought about what I would do it I saw someone destroying the woods, and I keep wondering who would I call and how would I explain where it was. It is not like you can call 911 or give them an address. Plus, I honestly believe no matter who you call if you tell them someone was riding an ATV is the mud they would not consider it a priority. By the time they get there, if they even do, they are long gone.

Guy
 

whitingrider

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Jun 28, 2007
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Whiting
Guy, I think a long time ago, the more seasoned people who frequented the pines would have had a dialogue and explained in no uncertain terms that damaging the ecosystem is unacceptable. Back then everyone used to converse at the popular spots, remember the partys at halfway in the eighties? Nowadays the people riding illegally aren't going to stop and talk to anyone. I honestly believe the people responsible for this damage have no idea they are doing irrepairable damage.
I wouldn't advise confronting anyone, but I'm sure we could all put ranger stations phone numbers in our phones- heck, it might even save a life someday.
One thing that all of us could benefit from would be joining treadlightly.org. There is alot to be learned, but I think the most important lesson is to take care of the areas where you ride so they remain open. It even has a section on riding mountain bikes responsibly.
Anyway, Russ and I are going to ride ATV's tomorrow and then go have a beer together. Should be very interesting!
Tom
 
Oct 25, 2006
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Guy, I think a long time ago, the more seasoned people who frequented the pines would have had a dialogue and explained in no uncertain terms that damaging the ecosystem is unacceptable. Back then everyone used to converse at the popular spots, remember the partys at halfway in the eighties? Nowadays the people riding illegally aren't going to stop and talk to anyone. I honestly believe the people responsible for this damage have no idea they are doing irrepairable damage.
I wouldn't advise confronting anyone, but I'm sure we could all put ranger stations phone numbers in our phones- heck, it might even save a life someday.
One thing that all of us could benefit from would be joining treadlightly.org. There is alot to be learned, but I think the most important lesson is to take care of the areas where you ride so they remain open. It even has a section on riding mountain bikes responsibly.
Anyway, Russ and I are going to ride ATV's tomorrow and then go have a beer together. Should be very interesting!
Tom

Hope the both of you have a great day tomorrow.

Jim
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,195
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Pines; Bamber area
No... it not NJCF property... It's private property and if you were on it... then you were trespassing!

Also the oily residue in the water isn’t from off roads vehicles, but decomposing plants.

Or another way to look at it is those tracks are going to create an abundance of new life in a dieing bog.

TheBronzeMan!

I hear what you are saying BronzeMan, but that is a recklessly audacious way to speak to another member of this board. Makes you seem like a smarty pants know-it-all. Did you get into many fist fights at school when you were young? You certainly could not have been a member of the debating team. Here, let me help you rephrase the above:

"Bob, are you certain that is NJCF property? I am somewhat familiar with the area. I realize George Cluen owns a lot of property in the area, and people ride there all the time. I'm not sure if he owns that portion of the South Branch, but he may."

"Bob, I have seen that oily type of residue in the swamps before, and am somewhat familiar with it. To me it looks like it may originate from plant material."

"Bob, perhaps the ATV use in a pristine bog is actually good for it, that it may generate new life? I'm not sure, since its not my field, but I have heard of land restoration techniques wherein locals having ATV's are solicited to come in and create ruts and tracks such as that. I've heard its good for the land".

"Thanks for the information Bob. I await patiently to hear your answers.....BronzeMan".
 
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