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If a road is being routinely used to get into sensitive areas where people are regularly tearing up habitat for globally imperilled species, then I think it should be closed. We might have to put up gates, so that the people who really need to use that road, such as fire-fighters and law...

I agree that it's not always clear whether something is a road or whether it is the scar left behind from somebody trampling vegetation with a big truck or ORV, but it's pretty obvious sometimes. As far as old roads becoming overgrown, I'd be inclined to drive them myself, sometimes, if that's...

This is how rumors get started. If you check the context, you'll see that I was responding to Ben, who proposed driving his jeep down a TRAIL (not sure what kind of trail he meant--some roads are called "jeep trails"). There are roads all over the public lands all over the Pinelands, and anybody...

Ben, drench yourself with Deep Woods OFF, puff on a big cigar, and it will keep some of the flies away! Also, bring someone along who is not drenched with OFF and is not smoking a cigar, and virtually all the flies will leave you.

Isn't the sticking point just finding appropriate places to spend it? I know you guys are in a tough spot, because if you are too close to neighborhoods, the people are likely to object to noise and traffic. If you are in a natural area, us tree-huggers will object to the affects on wildlife. We...

Well, I respect your wish for more opportunities to do the kind of recreation you want to do. Right now, you can ride street legal bikes and street legal 4WD vehicles all over the state forests, as long as you stay on designated roads. You can ride non-street legal vehicles on your own property...

10-4 on education and walking when you want to get off the road.

I know! I have read through some of the other material, and you have a lot of good discussions going on. I don't have any trouble finding time, but I definitely struggle about how to put it to best use!:confused:

Don't worry, I know you are speaking candidly and honestly. I don't interpret that as an attack. Let's keep talking...

One important point is that, as far as I know, the law enforcement people have a policy of not chasing due to the dangers. They are supposed to use their ATV's and bikes to get into areas that need to be patrolled and try to write citations without chasing people. Secondly, I wish everybody...

10-4. I can relate. I have some personal memories like that too. That's why we need to think this through together. We have both responsible and (mostly young) irresponsible riders out there. We have people with big trucks, ATV's, and dirt bikes. They want to have fun, and, let's assume most of...

I agree that the ATV traffic is not as destructive as the big truck traffic. The main difference is that the big trucks are more identifiable and drivers are more likely to be apprehended and cited for violations. I suppose that if everybody would abide by the rules, stay on the roads, not...

Tom, believe me, I see your point! I have been out there teaching a map and compass course and found me and my group in between the standers and the drivers. That gets the blood pumping a little bit. But, I grew up hunting, so I don't think of it as really dangerous. My point is that ORV...

First, I will assume that most of us can agree that the public should not be coerced into giving up land to a special interest group just because that interest group has some members that threaten the rest of us. So, hopefully, we don't have to keep arguing about that. Next, I agree that the...

One thing at a time. It often seems that ORV riders are saying, and you are repeating the logic here, "We want to do ORV recreation, but it's expensive, so we want the citizens of New Jersey to pay to give us a place to do it. If they don't give us what we want, we will do whatever we want to...

PPA trying to ban ORVs? Sorry I got distracted from this debate! I'm not the lead person for PPA on this, but I am involved, and I do have a personal interest in it. Please fill me in if I am missing some key points, but it seems I need to repeat what I said before. PPA has been falsely...

That sounds right to me. Another point though, is that quad riders tend to take their vehicles into places where dirt bikers wouldn't. Like riding right down a stream or into a pond or other soft, wet areas where a dirt bike just can't go through. Worst of all, in my opinion, is the big trucks.

It's hard to say what kind of vehicle causes the most damage because, as you say, it really depends on the driver. The main point is that motor vehicles of any kind should stay on the road in natural areas. I think the reason ATV's are banned on the state lands is because too many ATV riders...

I understand that we can debate what constitutes a significant natural resource. In the context of private property--again, this is not the primary issue--I would say that if someone is destroying a leatherleaf bog on his own private property, he is degrading a wetland, which is a significant...

Thanks! My hat's off to Ben. As for different perspectives, the way I figure, no matter how different we are, we have more in common than we usually realize! Most of the ORV riders I have met really care about the Pine Barrens and its wildlife. There are some very indifferent and careless ones...