1/4 mile fun

[Pines Lover]

Went back this morning, fire still warm from the day before.

Many recent tracks.

Heard motorcycles and 4 wheelers in 1/4 mile bog.

Did not go any closer.

On way out passed 2 monster trucks with 40 inch wheels and snorkels.

Reported it to Atsion Office, they called Park Police.

Hope something happened.

 

[JerseyJK07]

Went back this morning, fire still warm from the day before.

Many recent tracks.

Heard motorcycles and 4 wheelers in 1/4 mile bog.

Did not go any closer.

On way out passed 2 monster trucks with 40 inch wheels and snorkels.

Reported it to Atsion Office, they called Park Police.

Hope something happened.

why not get closer and take pictures? that only helps the park police. I always cary my camera.

 

[Teegate]

I as a offroader agree that there are a few areas that are out of control such as 1/4 mile. I go all around that are but never enter 1/4 mile becouse i know that it is off limits. I am a responsable 4x4 wheeler. Not everyone goes out to distroy the pines. People keep say that the 4 wheelers are responsable. they should say that "Some 4wheelers that are wreckless and careless" are responsable. Whe i go out ridding i meet with the others i ride with at Atsion. We ride respectfully and do report every person we see doing illigal happenings. So everytime you see a group at the ranger station gathering, dont just ASSUME they are going to 1/4 mile or some other place to distroy our natural pine lands. I have cleanned apple pie hill and a alot other places year round on my own. Why? becouse i care and so do ALL the people i ride with. We have also worked with th park service to help clear roads after bad rain and snow storms of down trees and recovered abandoned vehicles. I agree something needs to be done, but what needs to happen is that the "responable offroaders", Park Rangers, Pinelands Commision and local offroading clubs should get together and help inforce a "Trail System" like Mudboy has said so that we can all co exist and help each other preserve the pine lands so we can all enjoy it.

I agree that most are responsible, but I don't think we need a trail system. We just need everyone to know that you must stay on the roads when in a wetland area. I am not talking about driving off the edge of the road to park, I mean driving through the wetland area. I am so afraid that this will go too far and the average person pulling off the side of the road will be fined. When I go out I don't want rules telling me what road I can and can't go down, but I always keep in mind where the road is taking me and when it is time to stop so that damage is not done to my vehicle and the woods around me. I have crashed through roads all over the pines over the years, and I can say without a doubt that 99.9 percent of the time I left no lingering traces of being there. Unfortunately, that is happening less and less.

Guy

 

[JerseyJK07]

I agree that most are responsible, but I don't think we need a trail system. We just need everyone to know that you must stay on the roads when in a wetland area. I am not talking about driving off the edge of the road to park, I mean driving through the wetland area. I am so afraid that this will go too far and the average person pulling off the side of the road will be fined. When I go out I don't want rules telling me what road I can and can't go down, but I always keep in mind where the road is taking me and when it is time to stop so that damage is not done to my vehicle and the woods around me. I have crashed through roads all over the pines over the years, and I can say without a doubt that 99.9 percent of the time I left no lingering traces of being there. Unfortunately, that is happening less and less.Guy

Im glad we agree. but people that speak out in public about this need to start saying that its the "Irresponsible 4 wheelers" and nothe just "4wheelers". What gets under my skin are the #1.Irresponsible 4 wheelers making us "Responsible 4 wheelers" look bad. and #2. people speaking public saying just "4wheelers" and not giving the "responsible 4 wheelers" any credit for caring as much as the they do. You have to admit that im correct about that?

 

[Teegate]

Im glad we agree. but people that speak out in public about this need to start saying that its the "Irresponsible 4 wheelers" and nothe just "4wheelers".

I agree. I owned two 4x4's years ago and I considered myself then and now a responsible rider. It is obvious you think the same way of yourself.

Guy

 

[Pines Lover]

Vernal Pools and Their Importance

Vernal Pools and Their Importance
And why whats happening at the scar is bad



Below is a photograph the the eroded wetlands along the side of the scar, near the bon fire site.
Look carefully and your can see a thin layer or lens of clay, which acted sort of like a pool liner and allowed the vernal pools to hold water during the spring months. These pools provided habitat for the many amphibians that need these fish free, temporary pools to reproduce. Now that the liner has been destroyed by 4 wheelers, these pools may drain to quickly to allow the frogs and salamanders that use them to successfully reproduce. Frogs that I have heard and observed at this site includes the southern leopard frog, green frog, cricket frog, carpenter frog and the rare Pine Barrens tree frog.




Click on photo for larger version

NJDEP INFO


What Are Vernal Pools?
Vernal pools are confined wetland depressions, either natural or man-made, that hold water for at least two consecutive months out of the year and are devoid of breeding fish populations. Here in New Jersey, rural portions of the Skylands, Piedmont, and Coastal Plain landscapes are home to the majority of our vernal pools. These unique ecosystems provide habitat to many species of amphibians, insects, reptiles, plants, and other wildlife.
Vernal pools come in an array of forms: isolated depressions within upland forests, seasonally flooded meadows, floodplain swamps, abandoned gravel pits or quarries, and even derelict swimming pools. However, no matter what the structure or genesis of the pool is, all vernal pools either dry out completely or draw down to very shallow levels unsuitable for sustaining fish. Fish are highly predatory on amphibian eggs and larvae. Over the course of evolution, several species of salamanders and frogs exploited these fish-less water bodies. Today, these species exhibit "hard-wired" instincts and behaviors that are geared exclusively towards fish-free vernal habitats.
Amphibians that are dependent upon vernal pools are known as "obligate vernal pool breeders." In New Jersey there are seven species - two frogs and five salamanders - that fit this category. Another 14 of New Jersey's amphibians also use vernal pools for breeding, but unlike the 'obligate' species, these species can successfully reproduce in habitats that contain fish. These species are known as "facultative vernal pool breeders."
Source: New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection

 

[bobpbx]

Vernal Pools and Their Importance

I don't think it is predominantly that breaking the clay layer allows the water to drain (especially since clay is usually thicker than a skim coat) that is the 'main' problem, but that the oil, and other foreign matter from vehicles as well as the constant mixing is bad for living creatures. In fact, I think that the puddles created by tons of trucks weight compacting the earth hold more water for longer periods than vernal ponds (epecially if they really are clay to begin with).

But who would want to live in that anyway....right? C'ept maybe a bull frog--and even he would split after awhile.

I was at several ponds in the area a week ago, and they were dry.

 

[Pines Lover]

I worked on the herp atlas and have been doing vernal pool surveys for 4 years.

The clay lens here is 3-5 inches thick and is gone.

I've seen a few other pools where this activity has caused them to drain so fast they are useless for herps.

 

[Pines Lover]

And most vernal pools should be dry at this time of year

 

[bobpbx]

And most vernal pools should be dry at this time of year

And...what about the depressions caused by the vehicles at the area in question, they are dry too?

 

[Pines Lover]

They where all mostly dry on 8.18.10.

I walked the whole area

 

[bobpbx]

They where all mostly dry on 8.18.10.
I walked the whole area

Hmm....I wonder where the are finding mud then....I saw at group at Atsion Saturday and they were covered in mud. Maybe they are still just going out slipping and sliding.

 

[mudboy dave]

And most vernal pools should be dry at this time of year

instead of just whining and crying why don't you start being part of the solution and bring up some suggestions????? Your $10k fine sounds great and all but do you think theres enough law enforcement out there to enforce this? do you think it will hold up in court? You seem pretty intelligent so instead of flapping your jaw step up to the plate and do something. I'm just tired of seeing the same copy and paste in about 10 areas and yet to have seen one useful thing.

 

[mudboy dave]

I agree that most are responsible, but I don't think we need a trail system. We just need everyone to know that you must stay on the roads when in a wetland area. I am not talking about driving off the edge of the road to park, I mean driving through the wetland area. I am so afraid that this will go too far and the average person pulling off the side of the road will be fined. When I go out I don't want rules telling me what road I can and can't go down, but I always keep in mind where the road is taking me and when it is time to stop so that damage is not done to my vehicle and the woods around me. I have crashed through roads all over the pines over the years, and I can say without a doubt that 99.9 percent of the time I left no lingering traces of being there. Unfortunately, that is happening less and less.

Guy

I have been ticketed for pulling over the side of the road in a pine needle covered area to unlock my hubs. I was covered in mud that came from mapped trails. I was ticketed for going off the established trail. I could not fight it as I would have liked to due to the fact that technically yes I was off the established trail where I pulled over. This is the same as getting pulled over going down 206 at 60 mph and getting pulled over because I have a 70s vehicle compared to the hybrid I was following at the same speed.
Believe me Guy, I'd like to see everything left alone as well, but due to the increasing number of trucks and jeeps being built specifically for mud, something has to be done. Open up Menatico, murphys pit, Port elizabeth, old halfway, old sandmines something. I'd still rather see everyone a 1/4 jmile rather ripping fresh new places up.

 

[imkms]

I agree that most are responsible, but I don't think we need a trail system. We just need everyone to know that you must stay on the roads when in a wetland area. I am not talking about driving off the edge of the road to park, I mean driving through the wetland area. I am so afraid that this will go too far and the average person pulling off the side of the road will be fined. When I go out I don't want rules telling me what road I can and can't go down, but I always keep in mind where the road is taking me and when it is time to stop so that damage is not done to my vehicle and the woods around me. I have crashed through roads all over the pines over the years, and I can say without a doubt that 99.9 percent of the time I left no lingering traces of being there. Unfortunately, that is happening less and less.

Guy

I also don't think that a trail system would help, It would just provide new paths for the irresponsible ones to destroy. And providing rules for fines etc is OK, but as we all know LEOs can not be everywhere 7x24 and it only takes seconds to destroy roads. In addition to the obvious concern over wetland/vernal pond areas, all areas are subject to destruction from rutting up the roads made by ATVs, Trucks, bikes, etc. Way too many roads have been rutted up to the point of being impassable except to those who have the right stomach or vehicle to handle it. And mudboy is correct in that there are a lot more monster type trucks heading to the woods these days than I can recall from past years, but that doesn't mean the state needs to provide a place for that type of activity, anymore than the state should maintain racetracks for people who like street racing.
People who enjoy "mudding" need a place to enjoy this type of activity, but I think it needs to be done at a private facility where the damage resulting from this activity is contained and maintained.

 

[mudboy dave]

I'm not saying the state needs to, I'm just suggesting some of the state owned quarrys as a solution. We have tried for places to open. They have all been turned down. Until somewhere to go go becomes available, it's just going to spread and spread .People got to be willing to give up something somewhere in order to put an end to this.

 

[Pines Lover]

instead of just whining and crying why don't you start being part of the solution and bring up some suggestions????? Your $10k fine sounds great and all but do you think theres enough law enforcement out there to enforce this? do you think it will hold up in court? You seem pretty intelligent so instead of flapping your jaw step up to the plate and do something. I'm just tired of seeing the same copy and paste in about 10 areas and yet to have seen one useful thing.

Enforce NJ laws.

Obey NJ laws.

DEP Commissioner Brad Campbell cracked down on this in 2002 and it was effective

Is that useful enough for you?

 

[Pines Lover]

I'm not saying the state needs to, I'm just suggesting some of the state owned quarrys as a solution. We have tried for places to open. They have all been turned down. Until somewhere to go go becomes available, it's just going to spread and spread .People got to be willing to give up something somewhere in order to put an end to this.

The problem is that no one wants to deal with the insurance issue with this dangerous kind of activity.

A town near me wanted to make an atv track with its old sand quarry, until the Joint Insurance Fund they belong to told them that this activity is one they would not consider and that they would be kicked out of the JIF if they tried.

No one wants the liability, thats why Bass River Twp. turned it down.

 

[Pines Lover]

I also don't think that a trail system would help, It would just provide new paths for the irresponsible ones to destroy. And providing rules for fines etc is OK, but as we all know LEOs can not be everywhere 7x24 and it only takes seconds to destroy roads. In addition to the obvious concern over wetland/vernal pond areas, all areas are subject to destruction from rutting up the roads made by ATVs, Trucks, bikes, etc. Way too many roads have been rutted up to the point of being impassable except to those who have the right stomach or vehicle to handle it. And mudboy is correct in that there are a lot more monster type trucks heading to the woods these days than I can recall from past years, but that doesn't mean the state needs to provide a place for that type of activity, anymore than the state should maintain racetracks for people who like street racing.
People who enjoy "mudding" need a place to enjoy this type of activity, but I think it needs to be done at a private facility where the damage resulting from this activity is contained and maintained.

The big problem is that almost all places where people want to mud are wet and by regulatory definition, are wetlands and are subject to State/Fed wetlands regulations.

 

[mudboy dave]

The problem is that no one wants to deal with the insurance issue with this dangerous kind of activity.

A town near me wanted to make an atv track with its old sand quarry, until the Joint Insurance Fund they belong to told them that this activity is one they would not consider and that they would be kicked out of the JIF if they tried.

No one wants the liability, thats why Bass River Twp. turned it down.

We already had insurance setup and done.