A Most Important Topic

[jokerman]

I am definately noticing that the little pieces of history are disappearing at many spots this web page discusses. The message board for this site is WAY too powerful a resource. I love it, but I feel it is harming what we love due to the few who are abusing it. Sorry, but can't help my feelings about it. I wish it could be a divine group of people. Maybe something can done?
Most all of the trace pieces of pottery and glass I found at Red Oak Grove just before it was illuminated on the message board were almost immediately removed on my next trip back. I am VERY concerned about this resource and think it is not being respected by the few who felt important enough to take such items. I'm not saying I've never taken a souvenier from anywhere, but once I got my bearings on how these areas have come to exist of not-much-at-all, I figured out that on ALL my explorations will not involve the removal of anything. If it was not for the preservation of these locations as Pine Barrens preserves, Wawa's and strip malls would have taken their places. It is up to us to respect and preserve these vulnerable areas. If we are the ones, who out of interest, take away the last remaining vestiges of what was, we have fucked up!all involved in this medium should start to take the role of preserver of each area we discuss.

 

[Teegate]

Jokerman,

You are unfortunately correct, and that is why I don't for the most part give directions to any important place I visit, and I have taken the heat for that also. I am certain that there are people who monitor this board and follow in our footsteps, which would be fine if they didn't scavenge these places. You have brought up a subject that has annoyed me for a long time, and I appreciate another view on this. And don't appoligise for feeling this way, because your sense of feeling is what we all should emulate.

Thanks Jokerman, you have my vote, but maybe you should do some editing of your post.

Guy

 

[bach2yoga]

I have to third that one as well...somehow we tend to think that we are special, we know the value of what we have found and that they are in good hands, after all, someone else will only take them.
Renee

 

[BEHR655]

I agree also. These small relics have no value once removed from the site. If only we get people to believe that the abandoned cars and junk had value......................

 

[Ben Ruset]

Okay now I feel guilty about having a Union Clay pipe.

 

[bach2yoga]

Put it back, so someone else who regularly collects can take it. It belongs in their collection.
I doubt that there is not one of us who has not at some point picked up some relic. I picked up several bricks out of thousands at a remain in Atlantic County that is zoned commercial and is up for sale, the remains are expected to be demolished. But if there are dozens of us visiting these sites, and half of us pick up an item, over time (and not much of it, either) these places will be nothing but cellar holes. Maybe someday someone will open up a Pine Barrens Historical Museum--hey, that's a damn good idea, isn't it??? And we can donate whatever we have....

Renee, pondering the idea of a historical museum...we could raise money to rebuild an old vacated historical house...

 

[BEHR655]

I'll donate all the ticks and chiggers I've picked up.

 

[Ben Ruset]

I suppose if the state did more to preserve these sites then it might be a bigger deal. The fact that New Jersey doesn't really care about them sucks, although in the grand scheme of things, there isn't much of GREAT historical vaue in a lot of these sites.

 

[BorderWalker]

Well, being one of the board's lurkers, I thought I'd pipe up and state for the record that I haven't been contributing to the decrease in various pieces of historic debris. Personally, I've been leaving any exploring for the colder months seeing as I sincerely hate ticks.

But Renee hit upon an interesting point. If the other option is to let other people continue to take souvenirs for their personal collection, why not organize a collective effort to preserve what's left at the various sites? I know offhand that the Ocean County Historical Society in Tom's River has a museum, perhaps they might be interested in some of the pieces found in that county.

And as Ben said, whereas these sites might not be of great importance on a state level, it probably has value to those on a more local level. It might be worth the effort. Just a thought...

--Tom

 

[BEHR655]

Personally I think that most things that are found at these sites would be of little interest to a museum. Perhaps an intact piece of clay pipe or a piece of machinery or an antique bottle would be of interest. A brick or a shard of pottery would really mean nothing in my opinion. I think all these things should be left alone as they are the things that get you exited when found. A cellar hole is a cellar hole but a cellar hole with debris.........that's another story.
Just my .02

Steve~ who only collects ticks, chiggers and scratches.

 

[bach2yoga]

Personally I think that most things that are found at these sites would be of little interest to a museum. Perhaps an intact piece of clay pipe or a piece of machinery or an antique bottle would be of interest. A brick or a shard of pottery would really mean nothing in my opinion. I think all these things should be left alone as they are the things that get you exited when found. A cellar hole is a cellar hole but a cellar hole with debris.........that's another story.
Just my .02

Steve~ who only collects ticks, chiggers and scratches.

I tend to agree...the interesting thing about the bricks that I pulled out where this: there were several companies over the years that used the buildings, and they used different frogs on the bricks; I tried to pull one aside of each to represent each time frame, sort of a historical timeline reconstruction. I would love to donate them to a museum...does Atlantic County have one? Alan Mounier, a NJ archealogist, did a thorough history of this site in an archealogical bulletin, so I found it pertinent. The only other things I recall ever "collecting" were at Cumberland, which was being illegally excavated, and I took them down to El Dora to return them to TNC who owned the property. Alan has since looked at the furnace at Cumberland and I believe they are calling in a couple of other people to look at it to consider the feasiblity of a full scale professional scale excavation.
I do agree with you about collecting, though

 

[stizkidz]

Hello all,

I feel very strongly about this topic and unfortunately, my feelings are split... First of all, every time I visit any place of historical interest, I cannot help but notice things like beer cans, spary paint, and destruction... This hurts me to see this happen. I could not believe my eyes to drive all the way back to Quaker Bridge and see graffiti covering it. This makes me wish that people would stop ruining these places by partying or destroying them.
However, who really truely enjoys these places but US? The people that post on this message board are the ones that truely appreciate these places for what they are - not a party spot! Therefore, I think that it is justifiable to take a small souvenier from a place that we visit. I do, however, think that in doing this we need to utilize some discretion in what we take home. (Is there an abundance of relics to take? and obviously don't ever remove anything that directly damages any place!) This is just my opinion, I don't expect everyone, if not anyone to agree with me.

P.S. On a side note: Who has seen the latest issue of "Weird NJ"? It is not only dappling into South Jersey but in particular, the Pine Barrens... There is an article entitled: "A Ghostly Mystery in Pasadena" as well as "another dimension in Ong's Hat" and lastly "stories from Carranza Road". Not to mention the fact that I counted 4 stories/referrences to my hometown and more towns nearby! One reason leading to the destruction of historical places? I think so.

-Benny
(college still sucks)

 

[jokerman]

I agree and believe that almost everyone on this site truly respects our places of interest. BTW, did it seem like the information on Pasadena provided in this month's Weird NJ was acquired from this site? It's possible that he went and did the same research that was done by the person on this site, but probably unlikely.

I plan to write Weird New Jersey to ask them to be careful with what they cover on the Pines. That mag, in many cases, shows no repsect to the areas they disclose. A friend of mine who works at the County Park which contained the "Slaughterhouse" told me that graffitti including devil signs and other blood red writing was put in place by the people of Weird NJ in order to make the place seem more creepy. There is almost never an article on an abandoned or old place that does not include devil worshipping, a murder, or other ridiculous tale. It's like the places wouldn't be interesting to the average reader without some evil twist. I hope the majority of the readers wil use Weird NJ as a stepping stone to becoming more interested in REAL history and it's preservation. I hate seeing anything vulnerable go into that mag.

 

[BarryC]

I tend to agree with you on this. I believe we should not take any artifacts, except maybe things like chunks of slag laying around at iron furnace sites, where there might be hundreds or thousands of these. If I do something like that I figure "How many people will actually pick up a piece of slag?? Not many, I don't think." I have a few pieces of slag from various iron furnace sites.
I also agree that these artifacts wouldn't amount to much in a museum. The cool thing about them is that they are there. That's it. When you see stuff that's there, then you have more evidence of what a site was. Taking this site evidence off-site and putting it in a museum wouldn't make sense. It would leave the site less interesting, in my opinion.
I prefer not to disturb any sites at all. In fact I don't even like to make footprints a lot, because I'd hate for an obscure, but interesting, site to become a heavy traffic area, you know?
I take a lot of photographs, and that's mostly all.
I also admit to taking some bricks from the brickworks ruins near Mays Landing, but I did this knowing that the site will be bulldozed sometime maybe soon. It's slated to become an office complex.
Also I pick up pinecones and leaves here and there, but they grow back!
Barry

I am definately noticing that the little pieces of history are disappearing at many spots this web page discusses. The message board for this site is WAY too powerful a resource. I love it, but I feel it is harming what we love due to the few who are abusing it. Sorry, but can't help my feelings about it. I wish it could be a divine group of people. Maybe something can done?
Most all of the trace pieces of pottery and glass I found at Red Oak Grove just before it was illuminated on the message board were almost immediately removed on my next trip back. I am VERY concerned about this resource and think it is not being respected by the few who felt important enough to take such items. I'm not saying I've never taken a souvenier from anywhere, but once I got my bearings on how these areas have come to exist of not-much-at-all, I figured out that on ALL my explorations will not involve the removal of anything. If it was not for the preservation of these locations as Pine Barrens preserves, Wawa's and strip malls would have taken their places. It is up to us to respect and preserve these vulnerable areas. If we are the ones, who out of interest, take away the last remaining vestiges of what was, we have fucked up!all involved in this medium should start to take the role of preserver of each area we discuss.

 

[stizkidz]

A friend of mine who works at the County Park which contained the "Slaughterhouse" told me that graffitti including devil signs and other blood red writing was put in place by the people of Weird NJ in order to make the place seem more creepy.

The Marlboro Slaughterhouse?

 

[Ben Ruset]

Moving this to general discussion...

 

[jokerman]

Barry,
I agree with everything you said. I only wish all people could be able to decide what's best for each area.

Yes, I was referring to the Marlboro Slaughterhouse.