And so it begins....

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,664
4,843
Pines; Bamber area
Hmmm, I see what you mean. Sounds like a bitch session made up of Developers. Mr. Anthony (Sunday hunting is fine) Mauro for God's sake. Here their plan is to ensure businesses trump environmental policy:

"Economic Impact
• For every rulemaking, require a comprehensive discussion of the economic impacts the rule
is expected to have in New Jersey.
• Require the Office of Economic Analysis to evaluate the economic and financial impacts of
proposed rules or other major regulatory decisions, including the potentially adverse
impacts associated with taking no action.
• Require the Office of Economic Analysis to evaluate the analyses of economic impacts
received from interested parties during the public comment period."

And this one gives the developers the option to say that a specific environmental rule should be discarded because it confilicts with their land use goals:

"The DEP must immediately suspend the implementation of requirements that have not been properly adopted through rulemaking, and immediately reconsider existing regulations that impose requirements that are not grounded in sound science, are impractical to satisfy, and conflict with other State environmental and land use policies."

I really love this one. Just let developers run wild over critical habitat.

"Immediately suspend the inappropriate use of the Landscape Project mapping of purported Threatened and Endangered species habitat."

And here.....build within 150 feet of a stream....go right ahead.

"Immediately rescind Administrative Orders requiring the application of 300-foot buffers from
certain streams or rivers where existing rules require a 150-foot buffer."

This one says....if it can be sold, then harvest it and sell it off. After all, idle land and wilderness should be tamed.

"Create a task force of biologists, legislators, foresters, environmentalists, DEP personnel,
Department of Agriculture personnel, business persons and representatives from the United
States Fish and Wildlife Management Assistance Team to perform a feasibility study for
creating a revenue oriented, self sustaining Department of Natural Resource Conservation or
other potential solutions to better focus the State’s efforts on natural resource conservation."

And why not hot dog carts?

"Revenue generation should be maximized through the use of concessions, camping and park
rentals and forest management."

One statement in the conclusion says it all....the main goal in fact:

"Conclusion
Our State needs a government that fosters a predictable and stable set of rules that allow
the public and the regulated community to safely plan for the future. Being environmentally
friendly is not mutually exclusive from being business friendly.
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,619
1,878
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
Reading the comments on that APP article reminded me of the reason why I don't go to the APP site anymore.

"Two snakes cost us our SUPER WALMART."

Really? Toms River needs a SUPER Walmart when there's a regular Walmart right down the road?
 

Spung-Man

Piney
Jan 5, 2009
1,000
729
65
Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
Final Report Department of Environmental Protection Transition

From the report:

"Accordingly, DEP must take the following actions to address this situation: Permitting Reinvention

Delegate land use permitting to the Meadowlands, Highlands, and Pinelands Commissions for the areas within their jurisdiction."


If the Pinelands Commission followed their own rules according to the Comprehensive Management Plan, this might have been good news. However, they have increasingly shown little interest in or ability towards upholding their own rules. Their current focus has shifted away from an entity concerned with environmental stewardship of a National treasure to one more engaged in economic development advocacy. Environmental planning is not the same as land-use planning. The latter discipline concerns itself with the built environment, the former in conserving it. Land-use planning, urban planning, urban design, and town planning are synonymous terms.

Until now the NJDEP has been the Commission's only impediment to sewering Pinelands Villages, an act that would forever change their character. At risk are 47 villages, an area containing 24,200-acres. According to the Commission, these Villages "are appropriate for infill residential, commercial and industrial development." There may be little left to distinguish between the 77,200-acre Regional Growth Areas and the Villages. The Commission will have full command of Smart Growth and Redevelopment to accomplish this task, and the developers will have gained an 30% more terrain to continue their "Growth-Area" handiwork.
 

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glowordz

Explorer
Jan 19, 2009
585
8
SC
www.gloriarepp.com
. . . the Pinelands Commission . . . . Their current focus has shifted away from an entity concerned with environmental stewardship of a National treasure to one more engaged in economic development advocacy.

The Pinelands Reserve is incredibly unique--look all across these fifty states; there's nothing to compare. It is eminently worthy of dedicated stewardship, and I hate to see this happening.

Glo
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,619
1,878
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
What we are witnessing is the modern day equivalent of that Jetport wanting to be built. Except now there's no John McPhee to write a book about what's happening.

I wonder how long it will take until there's a SUPER Wawa in Chatsworth?
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,144
Coastal NJ
I wonder how long it will take until there's a SUPER Wawa in Chatsworth?

If Ocean Spray ever closes up, it'll probably become a Costco or BJ's.

I guess that get together at New Egypt Speedway Mauro invited us all too, paid off for him. Appears we got the same change from Christie we got from Obama, but most folks call it the shaft. They're all the same.
 

Spung-Man

Piney
Jan 5, 2009
1,000
729
65
Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
Redevelopment and Smart Growth

sorry, it posted twice. For some reason different browsers are giving different results. I'm a Mac, so Bob's post above looks fine to me but is broken on other formatted displays. These issues seem to be relicts related to cut-and-paste.
 

Spung-Man

Piney
Jan 5, 2009
1,000
729
65
Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
Redevelopment and Smart Growth

Yes, the (mis)use of Redevelopment and Smart Growth will have an effect upon all facets of Pinelands stewardship. For example, wetland-rule considerations:

Pinelands Comprehensive Management Plan
Wetlands management
Proposed Amendments: N.J.A.C. 7:50-2.11, 7:50-5.1, 7:50-5.22, 7:50-5.23, 7:50-5.24,
7:50-5.25, 7:50-5.47, and 7:50-6.10

“Executive Order No. 4 (2002) requires State agencies which adopt, amend or repeal any rule adopted pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act (N.J.S.A. 52:14B-4(a)) to describe the impact of the proposed rule on the achievement of smart growth and implementation of the New Jersey State Development and Redevelopment Plan (State 15 Plan). The Commission has evaluated the proposed amendments which are the subject of this rulemaking effort to determine the nature and extent of their impact on smart growth and implementation of the State Plan. To the extent that Smart Growth promotes the integration of the built environment, habitat protection and preservation of natural resources, this amendment is consistent with and advances the State Plan smart growth policies and objectives.”

For a recap, see the link in green below:

“clusters it into smart-growth areas (Leaken)”

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/f18/new-fight-over-how-save-pinelands-6033/#post60041
 

PancoastDrifter

Explorer
Dec 7, 2008
728
56
www.flickr.com
'smart growth' = corporatism


corporatism : the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction
 
Apr 6, 2004
3,620
564
Galloway
Bob,

Politics is not my cup of tea, and I don't quite understand the lingo of lawmakers. Can you walk me through these quotes and explain why exactly you take issue with them?

• For every rulemaking, require a comprehensive discussion of the economic impacts the rule
is expected to have in New Jersey.
• Require the Office of Economic Analysis to evaluate the economic and financial impacts of
proposed rules or other major regulatory decisions, including the potentially adverse
impacts associated with taking no action.
• Require the Office of Economic Analysis to evaluate the analyses of economic impacts
received from interested parties during the public comment period.


The DEP must immediately suspend the implementation of requirements that have not been properly adopted through rulemaking, and immediately reconsider existing regulations that impose requirements that are not grounded in sound science, are impractical to satisfy, and conflict with other State environmental and land use policies.
Immediately suspend the inappropriate use of the Landscape Project mapping of purported Threatened and Endangered species habitat.

What are the considering "inappropriate", I wonder?

"Create a task force of biologists, legislators, foresters, environmentalists, DEP personnel,
Department of Agriculture personnel, business persons and representatives from the United
States Fish and Wildlife Management Assistance Team to perform a feasibility study for
creating a revenue oriented, self sustaining Department of Natural Resource Conservation or
other potential solutions to better focus the State’s efforts on natural resource conservation."
 

Spung-Man

Piney
Jan 5, 2009
1,000
729
65
Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
An EIA-Related Land-Use Planning-Change Scenario

In the publicly funded Buena Vista News (June-July 2009), the Township Mayor wrote an article entitled “The Richland Village Project – Grants, Improvements and Myths…” Within is stated, “Richland is not going to have sewers.” Yet, it appears that there is behind-the-scene maneuvering to do just that. In a letter to Acting Chairman Norman Tomassello, BVT’s Municipal Engineer demanded a “sanitary sewer along Route to Route 40 to Richland Village” before the Township would embrace EIA changes (Scjeidegg, 2009: 2, BVT file #6006.124).

Attached is a GIS-map created by the Great Egg Harbor Watershed Association using polygons developed by Pinelands Commission staffers to show potential upzoning in the Buena area, and it may be the scenario invoked by the Municipal Engineer (above) to bring sewering to Richland. These changes, if accepted, would greatly expand development potential. GEHWA Administrator Fred Akers has been reviewing EIA Management changes associated with proposed upzoning and downzoning. His preliminary assessment suggests that we should look carefully at what is being protected and what is being traded off. I’ve added yellow stars to the attached GEHWA image that locate four proposed or ongoing Redevelopment projects – three within the National Reserve and one bordering it.

Click to expand figure:

4I9uqy2.jpg
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,664
4,843
Pines; Bamber area
Bob,

Politics is not my cup of tea, and I don't quite understand the lingo of lawmakers. Can you walk me through these quotes and explain why exactly you take issue with them? What are the considering "inappropriate", I wonder?


For every rulemaking, require a comprehensive discussion of the economic impacts the rule
is expected to have in New Jersey.

>>>lets say you want to rule to create a 90 foot stream buffer for certain streams because fish are dying from runoff. If the economic impact costs jobs because someone has to move or cannot put a site there, who wins the argument? Should we just say the fish have to go?>>>>

• Require the Office of Economic Analysis to evaluate the economic and financial impacts of
proposed rules or other major regulatory decisions, including the potentially adverse
impacts associated with taking no action.

>>>Lets say the proposed major regulatory decision is to allow developers on 1 acre lots in the preservation area of the pinelands to have septic systems (must have 3.2 acres now). Can the builders association come in to the Office of Economic Analysis and say that no action to approve this proposed decision will cost 1,000 jobs. Is that a reason to allow the regularory decision to allow septic systems?>>>>

• Require the Office of Economic Analysis to evaluate the analyses of economic impacts
received from interested parties during the public comment period.

>>>Suppose that now the pine snake has 10 acres of protection around a den. Suppose also, that reptile traders currently have no say in that. Suppose then, that science now proves it should be 15 acres. Can the reptile trade people get a say, will they now have to be listened to?<<<

Immediately suspend the inappropriate use of the Landscape Project mapping of purported Threatened and Endangered species habitat.

I wonder the same thing Gabe. In whose eyes is it inappropriate? Has this been proven in that every case of mapping, they got it wrong everytime? Throw out the baby with the bath water?

Create a task force of biologists, legislators, foresters, environmentalists, DEP personnel,
Department of Agriculture personnel, business persons and representatives from the United
States Fish and Wildlife Management Assistance Team to perform a feasibility study for
creating a revenue oriented, self sustaining Department of Natural Resource Conservation or
other potential solutions to better focus the State’s efforts on natural resource conservation

Revenue oriented? Self sustaining? In other words....no more funding for the Department of Natural Resourses Conservation? Go cut some trees down to pay for your activities?
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,144
Coastal NJ
"Create a task force of biologists, legislators, foresters, environmentalists, DEP personnel,
Department of Agriculture personnel, business persons and representatives from the United
States Fish and Wildlife Management Assistance Team to perform a feasibility study for
creating a revenue oriented, self sustaining Department of Natural Resource Conservation or
other potential solutions to better focus the State’s efforts on natural resource conservation."

First of all, what is the 'United States Fish and Wildlife Management Assistance Team'? It is not a government agency, the best I can determine it is a group of management trainers, none with fish or wildlife experience, whose mission is quoted from their website;

http://www.fishwildlife.org/agency_mat.html

"MAT's Mission:

"Helping State Fish and Wildlife Agencies to Achieve Excellence"

The Management Assistance Team (MAT) works as consultants and trainers to assist fish and wildlife professionals with a wide range of agency management-related challenges. The MAT team is funded by a multi-state conservation grant through the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies; therefore, MAT exclusively serves state fish and wildlife agencies at no charge for MAT products and services. MAT is passionate about providing quality, accessibility, and responsiveness.

MAT's Vision:

"One day the Management Assistance Team will have helped state fish and wildlife agencies attain a level of agency management undreamed of in state government or even private industry. Fish and wildlife agencies will be run so effectively that there will be world-wide recognition of their effectiveness — governors, state legislators, and commissions will acknowledge the excellence of state fish and wildlife agencies’ efforts and exhort their other state agencies to emulate the examples. State fish and wildlife agencies will be able to implement change seamlessly and respond immediately to changing natural conditions, changes in public desires, and economic changes."

Bureacratic mumbo jumbo. And the representatives doing the feasibility study have no one speaking for the sports person.

And since the fee's from hunting and fishing are in a state of decline(fishing has seen a modest increase the past 2 years, but still down over 8 years) and cannot sustain the states Division of Fish & Wildlife, its fair to say the division would not be able to sustain itself and disappear.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/license_sales01-08.pdf

Makes you wonder how the management of the states parks and forests would fare, as they do not impose any fee's, except for a couple with entrance fees and a few permits. The parks can't make it now even with the help of Trenton.

Unless I am completely missing something really big, all this is not a good thing. :rolleyes:
 

amf

Explorer
May 20, 2006
155
50
Swedesboro
Bob,

"Immediately suspend the inappropriate use of the Landscape Project mapping of purported Threatened and Endangered species habitat."

What are the considering "inappropriate", I wonder?

Here is an example of what I consider "inappropriate": large tracts of actively farmed land are classified as environmentally sensitive grassland habitat in the Landscape Project, primarily because IF they were to stop being farmed and IF they were allowed to sit idle, they would revert to grassland. These lands do not support T&E species now, and it is only a possibility they might if the land was allowed to sit idle. While I would be the first to support sound environmental protection policy, I feel this is not the way to go about it. If it is documented habitat, buy it or protect it in some way - much like they did with the man-made grasslands around Cowtown in Salem County. We could tear down a walmart and seed it with grass, and you would have grassland habitat that might support a T&E species.

amf
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,664
4,843
Pines; Bamber area
Here is an example of what I consider "inappropriate": large tracts of actively farmed land are classified as environmentally sensitive grassland habitat in the Landscape Project, primarily because IF they were to stop being farmed and IF they were allowed to sit idle, they would revert to grassland. These lands do not support T&E species now, and it is only a possibility they might if the land was allowed to sit idle. While I would be the first to support sound environmental protection policy, I feel this is not the way to go about it. If it is documented habitat, buy it or protect it in some way - much like they did with the man-made grasslands around Cowtown in Salem County. We could tear down a walmart and seed it with grass, and you would have grassland habitat that might support a T&E species.

amf

If that is what they are doing, then I agree it is wrong.
 

Spung-Man

Piney
Jan 5, 2009
1,000
729
65
Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
That’s why there’s a Pinelands National Reserve…

Here’s where we may have advantage over the rest of the State. In the Governor’s DEP Transition Report, land-use permitting will fall under Pinelands Commission jurisdiction. It should be much easier to hold the New Lisbon crowd to task than their Trenton counterparts. If we demonstrate popular support for Comprehensive Management Plan enforcement, we can slow its current erosion.

There is more to this place than the T&E flora and fauna. Pinelands qualities are multifarious, encompassing both cultural and environmental elements. The CMP recognizes these valued assets. Its goal is to “preserve and protect the significant and unique natural, ecological, agricultural, archeological, historical, scenic, cultural and recreational resources of the Pinelands. Like the spaghetti-sauce advertisement boasted, “its in there!” Let’s take ownership of our place, and not let it slip away.

Today I learned that the Pinelands Commission requested a cultural survey towards Richland Village redevelopment.

“In their work, Berger and Sinton (1985: xvii-xviii) commented that planners spend much of their time on the physical aspects of a site, but fail to relate a location’s importance to the cultural ecology. Addressing this problem, they state that cultural geography ‘can help dispel a planner’s arrogance that only he or she really understands a region and how to treat it. The beauty and complexity of the Pine Barrens should awe the officials in charge of the region’s future. The deep understanding of any place can leave no room in a planner’s mind for cynicism’ (Demitroff, 2007: 180).”
 
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