Artifacts

Discussion in 'Photographers Phorum' started by Teegate, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
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    I was sent this by someone who owns this item. It is reported to have been made in a Jersey Furnace.


    fireplate photo.ajpg.jpg
     
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  2. 46er

    46er Piney

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    Is that a fireback?
     
  3. Heywood

    Heywood New Member

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    Right offhand, I'd say it's commemorative to the end of the revolutionary war (1783) by the treaty of Paris where the English agreed to very easy terms for the new country. Probably commissioned by Atsion ironmaster Henry Drinker who had been interned in Virginia for refusing to swear loyalty to the rebelling colonies. The market of course would have been Phildelphia, and why that fireplate never got there is an open question. Considering the motto, in 1782, only a devout Quaker would have come up with it. His second wife's diary might have mention of it if I had a free copy of that historical document. (Don't bother telling me to prove what must be obvious by the dove chomping on an olive branch, and then current affairs in that area then.)
     
  4. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
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    What is meant here, are you saying Drinker was interned falsely, or are you saying he had a change of heart and decided to support the cause. Which?

    I find it unique that it's not symmetrical.

    Are you sure it's a dove, and not a different bird? I can't resolve the plume on the head.

    Guy, did the owner say how he came across it? I'd like to show up at the antique roadshow with that.
     
    #4 bobpbx, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  5. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
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    No.
     
  6. h2ochild

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  7. 46er

    46er Piney

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    I agree; given the slogan, fits the time and the purpose.
     
  8. Heywood

    Heywood New Member

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    He wasn't the only Quaker interned and I recall reading where his wife went to get him when he was released. Henry was a major player in the Quaker community but without trying to date events. I believe Salter managed the iron business because Henry couldn't. Henry was a fascinating figure in history and his will was as strong as the furnace product.

    Yeah. It's a dove. Not even Wilson the ornithologist who produced the first bird book could draw very well.
     
  9. Heywood

    Heywood New Member

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    I wondered about that bird but thought the branch in its bill must have made it the dove of peace that is symbolic. All I can find about the phoenix is that Quakers reject symbols. I guess that would include doves as well as a Phoenix. But! It does look like images of that imaginary bird. Either a Phoenix building a nest to immolate itself in for a new beginning, or a dove with an olive branch to express peaceful trade with a now open market. All that thinking is in vain when we consider that the patterns for furnace castings were usually done by German wood carvers who visited many furnaces to ply their trade. The guy who actually carved it probably did the same bird, and called it whatever the customer wanted. I’ve read about Virginia furnaces who traded patterns and sold them off sometimes.

    I’ll go with the dove of peace and dedicate my choice to John Hinkel my German uncle whose house full of carved furniture went to the highest bidder instead of his deserving nephew. My dog, to your left, thinks it's a dove too. A tasty looking one.
     
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  10. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
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    Guy, that symbol of a Phoenix jogged my memory of a forge or furnace I read somewhere named "Phoenix". Sure enough, it's on page 112 of "Early Forges and Furnaces in New Jersey" by Boyer. Over by Lakehurst in the 1820's or so. Perhaps it's relevant to that item.
     
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  11. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
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    Also, from "Place Names of Ocean County New Jersey" (Vivian Zinkin, 1976);

    Phoenix Forge: Because the forge, rebuilt shortly after it was destroyed by fire, appeared to rise like the Phoenix from it's ashes.
    Other names: Phoenix 1828, Old Union Forge 1839, Phoenix Furnace, 1846.
     
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  12. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
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    #12 bobpbx, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  13. Spung-Man

    Spung-Man Explorer

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    There is a little-known work titled Artistry and Industry in Cast Iron: Batsto Furnace, 1766–1840 (Giordano, M. M., 2005: MS thesis, University of Delaware, Newark, DE, 122 pp.). In my personal library is the ProQuest version (UMI Microfilm 1428756), which by authors request lacks all Figures (pp. 75–118). To see the Figures of firebacks stove-plate patterns you will have to go to the Morris Library in Newark, DE. Maybe this might help.

    S-M
     
    #13 Spung-Man, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  14. Heywood

    Heywood New Member

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    We're both wrong. It's supposed to be a eagle.
    The American bald eagle was adopted as the national bird of the United States of America in 1782. That motto and bird are well represented on the internet. If Henry Drinker ( a Quaker) had anything to do with it, it definitely would be "Peace liberty and independence"

    Pennsylvania State of Arms and Flag - An olive branch and cornstalk cross limbs beneath—symbols of peace and prosperity. The state motto, "Virtue, Liberty and Independence", appears festooned below. Atop the coat of arms is a bald eagle, representing Pennsylvania's loyalty to the United States. From WIKI

    https://www.worldcat.org/title/peace-liberty-and-independence-philadelphia-march-24-1783-his-most-christian-majestys-cutter-the-triumph-commanded-by-the-chevalier-duquesne-arrived-this-morning-in-36-days-from-cadiz-by-her-we-have-the-following-very-agreeable-and-important-intelligence/oclc/55835595
     
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