Baileytown

[drb]

Yes, Don is Slospokes and yes, those are the maps! The ones we used on that trip that day we were all at Baileytown a number of years ago.
Gerry was in the car with me at Hunters Mill. Gerry is our age. His beard is much more closely shaven now. But both Ted and Gerry have beards and both are botanists.
Do you have a copy of the Hartman maps?

 

[drb]

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/tuesday-with-alfie.5146/page-13

here is a thread showing tuckahoe creek upstream from where I seen Ted looking at the map.I hear he is into plants,the stream is real pretty and walkable if you take your time.I have found spearmint growing along the swampy banks in the past.Not common around here from what I have seen.

Gerry You could say he is into plants. He was director of science at Brooklyn Botanic Gardens for app 10 years and in January started working as a team leader for the USDA NRCS in North Carolina on the USDA Plants Database.

 

[manumuskin]

Yes, Don is Slospokes and yes, those are the maps! The ones we used on that trip that day we were all at Baileytown a number of years ago.
Gerry was in the car with me at Hunters Mill. Gerry is our age. His beard is much more closely shaven now. But both Ted and Gerry have beards and both are botanists.
Do you have a copy of the Hartman maps?

yes I have the Hartman maps,thanks to you,you lent me yours so i could get them copied several years ago.I took them to a printer in vineland,I forget who now and even where,thats scary,I forgot a location. Found quite a few nice stones with those maps.Thanks again.

 

[drb]

yes I have the Hartman maps,thanks to you,you lent me yours so i could get them copied several years ago.I took them to a printer in vineland,I forget who now and even where,thats scary,I forgot a location. Found quite a few nice stones with those maps.Thanks again.

that's funny! probably Hilliard Blueprint services. I got them from Mark Demitroff, and love them too.

 

[manumuskin]

Yes Hilliard it was.I remember somewhere in north vineland.

 

[manumuskin]

I think I was confused.I thought you and ted were talking about me which was odd since I don't know him.I think you were referring to Ted talking about Guy,since they are acquainted.Okay things are getting clearer now.I can tell 50 approaches :-(

 

[drb]

LOL, here is the scoop: Ted has known Gerry since he (Gerry) was barely out of high school, when he (Gerry) worked at the Pinelands Commission I think? I first met Ted...hmmm...10 years ago?? on the TNC Oswego Preserve Bioblitz and became good friends with him after taking his pinelands plants course through PPA and trips with the Philadelphia Botanical Club. I love picking his brain between the botany and the history - he still remembers the old Pineys. As far as Guy and Ted, I'll let them speak for themselves, I just know that Ted thinks highly of Guy.

 

[manumuskin]

So do I.Guy is the Stone King! I'm just a stone apprentice.

 

[Boyd]

Some of the images/maps on there are from Don Hartman, remember him? Heck of a good guy. We went to visit him when she was putting up her site and he was generous enough to allow her to scan them.

We discussed the Hartman maps here: http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/sawmill-locations.5379/page-2#post-61746

I started georeferencing them and it seems that with some more tweaking they can be transformed into pretty accurate which I can offer for download with my other pines-related garmin maps. I have not forgotten this, but just haven't had time to circle back to it. In the months ahead I'll do some more work on that project and will report back.

 

[drb]

Cool stuff. We've played with overlays but haven't messed with integrating them onto the gps. Are some of these already available for download? That would be great!

 

[Boyd]

Thanks! The Hartman maps are available for download - see the link Jerseyman posted in the other thread I mentioned. The Hartman map isn't available for your GPS yet since I haven't made it. You will not be able to get this map into scale using simple methods like Google Earth; it requires professional GIS software that can "warp" it to match known landmarks. I did enough work to see that it should be possible, but it will take some time.

I do have other maps that you can download however if you have a Garmin GPS. The newest and most comprehensive is here: http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/294/ . The screenshots I posted earlier in this thread came from that map. There are more here, but many of them will only work on the newer Garmin models like the ones that are named after states (such as the Oregon): http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/byuser/282/

 

[drb]

Thanks, I will check out, and Happy New Year!

 

[Teegate]

Al and I did some extensive searching on portions of the Hartman Maps. They are not to scale and for the most part can't be used in that manner for accuracy. However, the information on them is quite valuable and helped Al and I find many historic stones, pipes, and monuments.

Guy

 

[manumuskin]

Believe him.We tried to take bearings and measurements where there were no survey lines or info in attempts to find things on the maps and it doesn't work.The survey info is quite good if you can find a starting point but without it the map is innaccurate.I think Hartman did a darn good job for a hand drawn map .He no doubt put the survey info in accurately and drew everything else in around it but thats not quite good enough for finding a stone with no written info.It must be exactly in scale and it wasn't:-(

 

[Boyd]

They are not to scale and for the most part can't be used in that manner for accuracy.

While that may be the case, this doesn't mean they cannot be properly scaled and converted into an accurate map. Powerful GIS software (I use globalmapper) can stretch and squeeze a scan of the map to put it into the correct proportions. As stated above, I did enough work on this last year to satisfy myself that it is indeed possible. It's not just a simple matter of changing the scale or moving it around. The image itself is actually morphed. By taking the location of known points, they can be lined up with points on the Hartman map. Everything is squashed and stretched in that local area to make it fit.

Now if a stone is just plain in the wrong place (west of the river when it should be east of the river), that can't be fixed. But most other things should be correctable. If you can provide me with coordinates of any points you find significant, that would help no doubt. For starters, I will just make the roads line up with the map, and will download current parcel info to see what fits.

Not sure when I will get to this, but it is certainly still on my list. When I do a bit more work, I will post some examples and seek your input. I will make this map. If you don't like it, of course you don't have to use it.

 

[manumuskin]

I will not be able to use it since I have a Magellan and not a Garmin.
Boyd you are the map making guru of the Barrens but on this one I can't wish you well.What you would do if your sucessful is take historical stoned some inscribed and quite close to roads and make geocaches out of them and no doubt objects of to steal to those of a mind to do such things.Like the Hanover stone Guy has a picture of on his site for it that was there and now is just a hole in the ground. I think what you've done so far by making all these cool maps for everyone for absolutely free is awesome and very selfless and I appreciate it even if their not compatible with my GPS and of course have no thoughts that you personally would take historic stones. The Hartman maps have been put online which gives anyone with the will and patience to find the same things we have and maybe more and I can't complain about that.Anyone that would put that amount of work into it is probably not out looking to steal a stone but just likes to solve mysteries as I do.To make them basically a geocache by making the maps precision accurate would not only take the work and the fun away but leave the stones open to the honesty and good will of all people and I'm not that optimistic to believe everyone is as selfless and good willed as you are.I can't wish you good luck on this one but knowing how good you are at what you do you probably won't need it anyway.
Al

 

[Boyd]

Seems like we've gone from "it can't be done" to "it shouldn't be done." Seriously Al, this kind of issue has been a concern of mine ever since I started making maps for GPS units and I've raised it in some other threads. Guy and I have exchanged some PM's on related topics in the past. So your point is taken. Perhaps this is a project that should has limited distribution?

I have a similar concern over a very accurate map I'm making of the Belco ruins. Just not sure that it would be a good idea to make that publicly available either.

Regarding Magellan vs Garmin, there really isn't any contest. An overwhelming number of people own Garmin devices. So, without even getting into the merits of each, if I want my maps to be useful to the majority of people they need to be in Garmin format. I also own a Magellan Triton 1500 and looked at some of the techniques to make compatible maps a couple years ago and wasn't so impressed. If there was an easy way to convert my maps to Magellan format, I'd do it. But then there would also need to be something comparable to GPSFileDepot for distributing them, and I don't think there is.

But ANYBODY with a computer can use my maps. Garmin's software - Basecamp and Mapsource - are free downloads and they can be used to view and print the maps even if somebody doesn't have a GPS.

 

[manumuskin]

I kind of like the Triton RMP program that you told me about (thanks again) I can take my own aerials or maps and calibrate them for the gps.I am usually withing 20 or 30 ft accuracy.sometimes I cross a road just before I actually step on it but for the most part I'm pretty good at it plus I can put usgs downloaded topos on it too though I already have those on my nat geo TOPO cd's for most of the eastern us.i can now do all that for free but a lot of work and time so the TOPO program I still consider worth the money.
If you do the Hartman map you ought to take a trip down this way and see if you bump into any stones.That will let you know if it's a sucess or not.There is a particularly nasty one down Belleplain way that likes to bust kneecaps so watch it.

 

[manumuskin]

http://binged.it/wnc6qb

The bartholomew farm

 

[dragoncjo]

ChrisR, how long ago are we talking for the timber rattlesnakes sightings by your grandparents? I wouldn't be suprised if there is a localized population down around there somewhere. I have some theories on where and I'm confident one day I will locate a cumberland country TR, its just a matter of finding time away from my committments in the core barrens.