Barry Zeldin Podcast

Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
Hello, I’m working with the family of Barry Zeldin specifically Debbie Zeldin to produce this show about Barry’s Disappearance in 2013. The Family, Barry’s hunt club and their family and friends believe Barry was murdered and that he never made it into the woods. Barry’s grandson also has stage 4 cancer and still wonders what really happened to his pop-pop. We’ve obtained the police report and interviewed many witnesses for the show. If anyone has anything they’d like to bring to our attention or share discreetly we can be reached at 484 553-8352. Here’s the first episode. https://wicked-garden-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes/episode-one-beyond-the-garden-gate-barry-zeldin Heres the second. https://wicked-garden-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes/beyond-the-garden-gate-episode-2-barry-and-the-first-mate Thanks for taking the time to read this and please share to help us get the word out.
 
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RednekF350

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…...….The assumption stated in that episode that it would be very hard to get lost in those woods is dead wrong.
I agree with that Bob. That area is one of the toughest in the pines. If one was just plowing through the dense vegetation, without a trail and without a GPS or compass, it would be very easy to get hopelessly lost. The density of the growth up there would make exhaustion a factor pretty quickly too.
An overcast day would make things worse, taking away the basic navigation tool of being mindful of the sun. Checking historic weather records, it looks like the day he disappeared was partly sunny and 66 degrees so he would have some guidance from the sun.
 
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Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
I respectfully disagree, he didn’t have his bow that day so he wasn’t going out to hunt. If he was tracking a deer and had to make his way through that brush to find it i’m on board. His stand wasn’t far off a well marked trail he had traveled before. The bait and the dog were still in the truck and that would have never happened according to all parties interviewed so far if he had made it to the woods. Taffy was always in the woods with him regardless of wether he was hunting or not. The family believes he was confronted when he got out of his vehicle and never made it into the woods. They base most of that off the police report and what it contains. They also base it off the lack of a body recovered in the area of the SUV despite repeated searches and most importantly the cadaver dogs used coming up empty. I agree with them that his body is nowhere near warren grove. I don’t agree with their confrontation scenario yet but I’m keeping an open mind. I really do appreciate your input, you guys are way more familiar with the area and I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
 
Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
I disagree with you Bob. I understand that it’s possible to get lost in that area if you’re just bushwhacking in with no particular plan or trailing a wounded animal and you have to go off trail and you don’t have a navigation tool, i get it. That wasn’t the case here, Barry’s stated intention was to bait his tree stands of which there were 6. This one was the farthest from the club, it was a stand given to him by A fellow member and it was 75 yards west of where he parked tops. There’s a trail to it, the police and family were easily able to locate it and get back with no issue. The sun was available that day and there are quad trails, other roads, drive lines, fire breaks crisscrossing the are and a swamp to the south. I can’t find one member of the club or family member that thinks he got lost in Warren Grove and I personally agree. I’m not the least bit interested in being right about anything, if the show leads to another search and they find him in there great. In order to bait a deer stand you need bait and all the bait, dog, brand new cell, wallet, keys and 2 compasses that we’re functioning properly were still in his car along with the keys in the ignition with the windows down.
 

bobpbx

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I disagree with you Bob. I understand that it’s possible to get lost in that area if you’re just bushwhacking in with no particular plan or trailing a wounded animal and you have to go off trail and you don’t have a navigation tool, i get it. That wasn’t the case here, Barry’s stated intention was to bait his tree stands of which there were 6. This one was the farthest from the club, it was a stand given to him by A fellow member and it was 75 yards west of where he parked tops. There’s a trail to it, the police and family were easily able to locate it and get back with no issue. The sun was available that day and there are quad trails, other roads, drive lines, fire breaks crisscrossing the are and a swamp to the south. I can’t find one member of the club or family member that thinks he got lost in Warren Grove and I personally agree. I’m not the least bit interested in being right about anything, if the show leads to another search and they find him in there great. In order to bait a deer stand you need bait and all the bait, dog, brand new cell, wallet, keys and 2 compasses that we’re functioning properly were still in his car along with the keys in the ignition with the windows down.
You misunderstood me. I was not speaking of Barry at all. The two voices on the webcast were saying after driving out there that (paraphrased) "I don't see how anyone can get lost out here, all you have to do is look for the tower". You said that of people in general, whomever they may be. And, I never thought Barry while in his right mind could get lost out there since he has some knowledge of the woods. My theory is his heart gave out in an area where it's hard to find him. Maybe he felt like scouting the area a bit.

Edit: in webcast at 31:22, Debbie says "I don't know how an adult could get lost out here". You agreed. I'm just trying to set the record straight.
 
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Teegate

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You can't see the tower as soon as you enter the woods. It is really easy to get turned around even if you are experienced. I don't have any guesses as to what happened to him, but once anyone gets in the woods there all bets are off that you are 100 percent certain to make it out.
 
Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
You misunderstood me. I was not speaking of Barry at all. The two voices on the webcast were saying after driving out there that (paraphrased) "I don't see how anyone can get lost out here, all you have to do is look for the tower". You said that of people in general, whomever they may be. And, I never thought Barry while in his right mind could get lost out there since he has some knowledge of the woods. My theory is his heart gave out in an area where it's hard to find him. Maybe he felt like scouting the area a bit.

Edit: in webcast at 31:22, Debbie says "I don't know how an adult could get lost out here". You agreed. I'm just trying to set the record straight.
Serious question: How many unrecovered hikers have been lost in Warren Grove? Can anyone recall anyone else? On your Barry theory, why did he leave everything at the truck and why didn’t the cadaver dogs catch a scent? Actually my wife said that not Debbie and to be honest i still don’t understand how anyone in their right mind could get lost in that chunk of land, beaver dam is to your north, radio tower is east and the swamp is to your south... sorry, I don’t see it. However a hunter tracking a deer could because his focus is elsewhere. A first time visitor perhaps also. There are also 2-3 game trails and 2 quad trails that run through from FAA to Radio. My point being, if you walk far enough you’ll hit a trail of some kind and all of them lead you to a road.
 

bobpbx

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My point being, if you walk far enough you’ll hit a trail of some kind and all of them lead you to a road.
"IF" you walk in a straight line. I was all the way down to here, and a GPS was crucial. Also, lost here is usually temporary, yes. But the average Joe is always told to sit still and wait for help. That could happen to many people. Have you been in this area all the way to "down 3"? Suppose I take you there blindfolded, spin you around three times? How long would it take you to get out?


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Boyd

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The Family, Barry’s hunt club and their family and friends believe Barry was murdered and that he never made it into the woods.
Haven't listened to the podcast and am not very familiar with that area myself, but I assume members of his hunt club are. His friends and family have had plenty of time to digest the results of investigation and search. Since they all knew and loved Barry, I see no reason to question their beliefs. I think it's very commendable that you're trying to help them discover what really happened in 2013.
 
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Brigantine
No i have not. So are you just trying to prove it’s possible to get lost in WG? Anything is possible of course. If you’re arguing that Barry got lost in Warren Grove and they just never found him, i’m sorry, I disagree, as does the family, his hunting buddies, some officials. However, i’d love to try that experiment as i’m pretty sure regardless of how many times you spin me around i could simply locate the sun. I know many people with a poor sense of direction including my 30 year old daughter so i see what you’re saying.
 
Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
Haven't listened to the podcast and am not very familiar with that area myself, but I assume members of his hunt club are. His friends and family have had plenty of time to digest the results of investigation and search. Since they all knew and loved Barry, I see no reason to question their beliefs. I think it's very commendable that you're trying to help them discover what really happened in 2013.
Thank you.
 

bobpbx

Piney
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So are you just trying to prove it’s possible to get lost in WG? Anything is possible of course. If you’re arguing that Barry got lost in Warren Grove and they just never found him, i’m sorry, I disagree, as does the family, his hunting buddies, some officials. However, i’d love to try that experiment as i’m pretty sure regardless of how many times you spin me around i could simply locate the sun. I know many people with a poor sense of direction including my 30 year old daughter so i see what you’re saying.
I mean no disrespect for what you are doing for the family. But when you and your wife drove down that road, you said to each other (paraphrased) "look, the trees are short with good spaces between them, how could he have gotten lost?". But that's not what it's like 200 yards into that swamp. There are holly bushes 10 feet high, and briar, and water up to your knees, and small cedars often so close together you have to break them to move, breathing heavy and cursing the whole time. Barry had a history of stroke right? If he had one as he scouted along, he'd be scared, disoriented, and maybe even panicky. Suppose he hit the river and tried to cross it?

I'm just saying, that could have happened. It may not be murder.
 
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Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
Got
I mean no disrespect for what you are doing for the family. But when you and your wife drove down that road, you said to each other (paraphrased) "look, the trees are short with good spaces between them, how could he have gotten lost?". But that's not what it's like 200 yards into that swamp. There are holly bushes 10 feet high, and briar, and water up to your knees, and small cedars often so close together you have to break them to move, breathing heavy and cursing the whole time. Barry had a history of stroke right? If he had one as he scouted along, he'd be scared, disoriented, and maybe even panicky. Suppose he hit the river and tried to cross it?

I'm just saying, that could have happened. It may not be murder.
gotcha, I completely understand however he then would have had to forget the bait, dog, phone, keys, wallet, 2 compasses and go in to bait the stand without any bait in order to get lost in the first place. It’s just not likely given the extent of the search and those cadaver dogs not catching the scent of rotting flesh. Could he get out of the Blazer walk in and forget all that stuff? The only scenario i could envision would be he had a pistol and maybe pulled up on a buck and chased it in, then got lost. He had a lifetime ban in PA. For baiting ducks so I don’t think poaching would stop him but that’s the only scenario i see with him actually making it to the woods.
 

bobpbx

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Interesting. Thanks for posting the podcast. My thoughts:

What's the story of Barry and the chain saw in the back of the car?

Are you documenting this graphically on paper? It would seem very useful.

You said to Bill: "nobody thinks he got lost". Does that include the police? Does everyone also exclude the possibility of a medical emergency accident?

Who is this WMES that you speak of owning property?

Have you spoken to his friend Dave Abbamondi from Egg Harbor Township?

Why don't you put an OPRA request to the cops for all the info they have on him? You make it sound like they are bumbling and incompetent, even uncaring. I find that hard to believe. They want to solve crimes. They have an ego like everyone else.

Why on earth would Holly Haines be going out to dinner with Barry? Odd, since your sources make him out to be a cantankerous guy, embarrassing to be around.

That word "beautiful" in the last clip escapes me. I would never swear to hearing that in a courtroom.
 

manumuskin

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There is actually no such thing as a sense of direction.It is just attention to detail and knowledge of how to use the sun,moon,stars,tree branches,etc to determine direction. I agree with Guy.I have been in woods very close to those and once you walk in you cannot see the tower because the trees are very dense and 20 ft tall and their too small to climb.Their very exhausting to push through similar to a laurel thicket. I also have no opinion of what happened to him but as far as getting lost it would be easy to do in those woods on a cloudy day
 
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Sep 16, 2019
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Brigantine
Interesting. Thanks for posting the podcast. My thoughts:

What's the story of Barry and the chain saw in the back of the car?

Are you documenting this graphically on paper? It would seem very useful.

You said to Bill: "nobody thinks he got lost". Does that include the police? Does everyone also exclude the possibility of a medical emergency accident?

Who is this WMES that you speak of owning property?

Have you spoken to his friend Dave Abbamondi from Egg Harbor Township?

Why don't you put an OPRA request to the cops for all the info they have on him? You make it sound like they are bumbling and incompetent, even uncaring. I find that hard to believe. They want to solve crimes. They have an ego like everyone else.

Why on earth would Holly Haines be going out to dinner with Barry? Odd, since your sources make him out to be a cantankerous guy, embarrassing to be around.

That word "beautiful" in the last clip escapes me. I would never swear to hearing that in a courtroom.
I really appreciate your thoughts, thank you for taking the time. A chainsaw was recovered from the trunk of Barry’s ford edge, he used to tell hunt club members that he was “going to take his chainsaw for a walk” (cut down tree stands he didn’t approve of). Debbie Zeldin provided the police report after our OPRA requests were denied. The OPRA was denied because “the NJSP has a right to withhold information they deem sensitive”, i have no idea what that means, could be there’s a civil case against them I don’t know about? Or perhaps they know more then they’ve discussed to this point.

All the officers who investigated the disappearance have refused to be interviewed so far but that may change in the very near future. There is no crime at this point so I don’t understand their reservations but to be honest the guys at the hunt club didn’t speak to me until i sent them a registered letter. Barry had a stroke so nobody has excluded the medical emergency theory. I’ve spoken to 3 different SAR organizations that work with cadaver dog handlers and they all believe that if Barry had died in that fashion the dogs would have picked up a scent on the 13th and for then next couple weeks at least. . Everyone I’ve interviewed and spoken with has said they had some concerns about how the SAR teams conducted the search and so far Mr. Boddy and anyone else i’ve contacted hasn’t returned calls.

I have not commented on the search teams because I haven’t heard from them. I don’t recall what WMES stands for, I believe it’s West Manahawkin Environmental some such but at the end of Radio tower road where the two gates are located, the western gate has their Name and phone number for contact. I have photos of it i could send to you if you’re interested. The vehicle should have been processed for fingerprints, the family and at least 3 witnesses told me things that were never documented on the reports. I had 2 other people tell me they called the cops and they never followed up.

Viewing the report it’s my opinion that they were solely focused on Janet Zeldin, i also have 3 retired officers working with the team who have viewed the report, 2 are retired FBI agents and 1 is a former lieutenant commander NJSP, they agree with me, at least half of the report is them visiting, questioning and harassing a 70 year old distraught woman, it’s embarrassing. They believed either Barry was actually lost or Janet had gotten rid of him somehow. Here’s one anecdote, they made a special note about janet accidentally deleting her dialed calls to Barry that week... just check the phone bill fellas, yet they never followed up with her to find out if his pistol was in the safe after week 1.

i would love to speak with the police, that’d be great. I believe too much stress is put on the NJSP because so many local departments don’t exist. They’re nor incompetent, they just don’t have the time. Check out the statistics on missing persons in NJ., take a look at the issue in Tom’s River alone. Their’s room for improvement in policy and practice, lets put it that way. If god forbid you have someone you care about try to get the FBI involved early on by any means necessary and deal with the repercussions afterwards. I think the Holly story is Barry’s bullshit although it’s a mystery how he got permission to hunt on that land. I would love to speak with Dave, would you know how i could go about getting in touch with him?

Thanks again for all your thoughts and help to this point! PS- one of my retired FBI agents is now a full time Paranormal investigator, he’s the guy who recorded the EVP and sent it to me, i met him through our other podcast, the word Beautiful is very clear on the original recording. I use simplecast as my host and they post process the file i send them and sometimes they flatten everything out because they think that’s the desired result. I have your email so i will forward you the original.