Bass River Fire Tower proposal

Teegate

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For some reason I ended up back on the start of this thread and saw this post and picture. I think I now know what this is. It is a loading platform, sort of like a stand-alone loading dock, probably from CCC days. I guess you would back a truck up to it, unload onto this platform, then ??? Not sure what it looks like from the other side - does it have a ramp? If not, maybe it had a wooden ramp that is now gone?
I was there looking at it a few days ago. No ramp.
 

lj762

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Feb 18, 2017
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Bass River State Forest
The Press of Atlantic City, Sun 1/5/2020, front page: "Bass River State Forest - Tree cutting starts near fire tower". It's a good article. They got the answers to some of our questions above: Who got the contract? Who paid whom and how much? And more.

I'm not posting a link to the article, or the answers. If you really want, you can find it online. Or you could support good local journalism by buying a copy of today's paper, or subscribe to the print or digital versions.
 

lj762

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Feb 18, 2017
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Bass River State Forest
More coverage in The Sandpaper dated today 1/8/2020 here: State Begins Forest Cutting for Fire Tower
Can't let this quote go without corrections: "Part of the area to be cut is the popular 3.5-mile pink trail frequented
by hikers in the state forest." 1) It's orange, not pink. 2) The trail was detoured away from the cutting area before they started. The detour goes through a really nice area, too.
 

Teegate

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He should tell us how he really feels :)

 

lj762

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Feb 18, 2017
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Bass River State Forest
You aren't the first person to ask about the names. ('Greg' in the letter is the State Firewarden / Chief of the Forest Fire Service, and 'Colin' owns, or co-owns the company doing the work.) I couldn't find any link between them, although I didn't look too hard. Also I think the project is going through a different department: Forest Service, not Forest Fire Service.
 

1Jerseydevil

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Feb 14, 2009
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So, it's costing taxpayers $17k to cut trees that were originally planted to harvest for lumber. That usually means a bid to buy from a lumber company not charge the landowner to cut. Only in NJ. Does anyone know if the harvest company is keeping any of the lumber grade trees for profit? Strange how $$ was found to cut the trees but not to improve the fire tower. Business as usual.
 

1Jerseydevil

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Feb 14, 2009
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The state paid $17,160 to have the 16.4 acres logged; the contractor has retained the logs as part of the payment.
I brought this up earlier in this thread. Nothing we can do about it except grumble. It seems that whenever a government entity, federal, state, county, township is involved money is wasted. This is no exception. Harvesting companies pay to harvest the lumber and their profit is in selling the logs to mills. Here "we" taxpayers not only paid the lumber harvester but allowed them to keep the logs. Somewhere in the early proposal, wasn't a portion of the lumber to be kept for use in the parks? Business as usual, bend over everyone.
 

lj762

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Feb 18, 2017
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Bass River State Forest
... Somewhere in the early proposal, wasn't a portion of the lumber to be kept for use in the parks?
This may be what you are referring to:
According to the forest fire service's plan, some of the wood from the harvested trees will be repurposed and used to construct interpretive kiosks to elucidate the CCC's (Civilian Conservation Corps) efforts...
(That's probably not a direct quote, but close.)
Remember that the forest fire service is different from the state park service, which actually manages the state forest. I think the reaction in the park service to the above was something like "we're supposed to do what now?"
 

lj762

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Feb 18, 2017
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Bass River State Forest
Well that was interesting. I really didn't think they were going to leave it as is for 2 years and see what happens, which is what DEP seems to be saying.

I would expect white pine to start growing back. Wouldn't it?

I guess everyone forgot that a marked hiking trail goes through there, and is "temporarily detoured".

"Stump removal was not necessary because stumps will slowly decompose..." How long does that take? 10 years?
 

1Jerseydevil

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Feb 14, 2009
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Yes, that was the quote. So now that the FFS didn't do that, you're saying the park service is saying "now what?" Yes, I agree.

Again too late now, wasn't one of the arguments from the FFS that the trees were originally planted by the CCC as a make-work program with the intention to latter by harvested? In reality, the expectation was to make money for the State or the park. I really doubt the intention was when the trees were harvested to pay for the harvest and give the logs away. Think of it as a business which it is. What business makes a product then has to pay someone to give it away? Yep, good business practice indeed.
 
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GermanG

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Yes, that was the quote. So now that the FFS didn't do that, you're saying the park service is saying "now what?" Yes, I agree.

Again too late now, wasn't one of the arguments from the FFS that the trees were originally planted by the CCC as a make-work program with the intention to latter by harvested? In reality, the expectation was to make money for the State or the park. I really doubt the intention was when the trees were harvested to pay for the harvest and give the logs away. Think of it as a business which it is. What business makes a product then has to pay someone to give it away? Yep, good business practice indeed.
I think you are putting too much thought into the long-term end of the process rather than the beginning. In the present day, unemployed people are simply handed money, with nothing expected in return. Back then the priority was putting people to work, doing anything remotely considered productive. It wasn't a business practice. It was a government make-work program, which I personally consider a better way of handling unemployment than how it is now.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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I think you are putting too much thought into the long-term end of the process rather than the beginning. In the present day, unemployed people are simply handed money, with nothing expected in return. Back then the priority was putting people to work, doing anything remotely considered productive. It wasn't a business practice. It was a government make-work program, which I personally consider a better way of handling unemployment than how it is now.
Lets not forget we all pay into that account that "hands unemployed people money" when we are working ;)
 

oji

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Could it be that they were given the trees in lieu of part of the payment? 1 or 2 men plus equipment since December for $17,000 sounds low.
 

1Jerseydevil

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Feb 14, 2009
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It's a done deal. We, the public failed to monitor and question/protest the "deal". This was expected and in fact, depended on. They know we all have busy lives and can't afford the time to attend meetings and amass a huge public protest.

On another note, but applies. How many of you have read the book Animal Farm. It was required reading along with 1984 when I was in high school. For those that have read, when was the last time you read it? Consider reading again to refresh your memory. Take special note of Squealy, chalk in hand changing the rules written on the barn wall.
 

1Jerseydevil

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Could it be that they were given the trees in lieu of part of the payment? 1 or 2 men plus equipment since December for $17,000 sounds low.
I think you have totally missed my point. We, the taxpayers should NOT have paid anything!
 

bobpbx

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Could it be that they were given the trees in lieu of part of the payment? 1 or 2 men plus equipment since December for $17,000 sounds low.
It says it was part of the agreement. Yes, you are correct, that $17K was light for the work done. And then there's shipping etc.

Let's put it this way: would you have agreed to cut 16 acres of heavy pines with rented equipment, gas, labor, insurance for $17K? I'd say hell no.
 
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