Bottle hunting reccomendations

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
28
Copperhead Road
I will see the justification for what it is, breaking a law because you don't agree with it or feel that it pertains to you. In many people's eyes doing something deemed illegal is unethical regardless of whether or not you subscribe to the genesis of the law. You act as if I am advocating plundering Batsto for its artifacts.
It's clear that you are hell bent on collecting bottles regardless of what anyone here thinks. Have at it, just don't complain because no one is helping you find them.
 

Stamos

Scout
Jun 11, 2009
60
39
18
51
Shamong
Have at it, just don't complain because no one is helping you find them.
Show me where I complained about not being told where to find bottles.

I took offense to the elitist, hypocritical attitude(s).
 
  • Like
Reactions: jburd641

Stamos

Scout
Jun 11, 2009
60
39
18
51
Shamong
e·lit·ist

[ih-lee-tist ey-lee‐]
adjective
1.
(of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society: elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else.
2.
catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions: Even at such a small, private college, Latin and Greek are under attack as too elitist.
noun
3.
a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society: He lost a congressional race in Texas by being smeared as an Eastern elitist.
4.
a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class
 

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
28
Copperhead Road
e·lit·ist

[ih-lee-tist ey-lee‐]
adjective
1.
(of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society: elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else.
2.
catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions: Even at such a small, private college, Latin and Greek are under attack as too elitist.
noun
3.
a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society: He lost a congressional race in Texas by being smeared as an Eastern elitist.
4.
a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class

We are very sorry for being such elitists. Thank you for showing us the error of our ways. Please accept our sincere apologies.
 
Apr 6, 2004
3,149
200
1,043
Galloway
Stamos,

If you find a bottle in the woods and you take it home to preserve it as a historical artifact, I think you are doing good. However, I would consider donating them if any historical society or museum could make use for it.
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,381
1,229
1,093
42
Eatontown, NJ
www.benruset.com
I have found, and taken, the odd bottle here and there over the years.

The ones that I have found have generally been in very poor condition from years of weathering. It's doubtful that any museum would want something like that.

You could make an argument that the presence of that bottle could provide an archaeological context for a site (lets say a homestead or gun club) especially by providing a way to put a date to the site. That's one of the reasons why the "don't take stuff from state land" law exists.

For me, personally, if I find a beat up - but interesting - looking bottle during my travels I might pick it up and take it. I wouldn't necessarily travel to a homestead/gun club site and start digging test pits to find bottles buried in the ground. To me that would be crossing the line. But a bottle on top of the ground? From my understanding of archaeology it's useless as dating evidence because it could pre or post date the site, have been dropped there at any point in time, etc.

Is taking that bottle legal? No, if you follow the black and white of the law.

Is taking that bottle morally okay? Eh, for me it's okay I guess. Other people can and do have differing opinions.

Anyway, everyone please knock off the personal attacks in this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jburd641

GermanG

Piney
Apr 2, 2005
1,048
329
1,063
Little Egg Harbor
This is a timely discussion for me because not only did I recently debate the issue at length with an individual I found using a metal detector and digging within the park I work at, but I also had occasion to observe a professional dig just this weekend. After witnessing the careful and methodical methods, with an explanation of the reasons, it is easier to understand why casual digging or removal of artifacts on sites that might be studied in the future could be harmful. Glass and ceramic shards, rusted pieces of metal and other seemingly valueless objects all had value in interpreting the site. After the identity and location of the objects were recorded, most would eventually be thrown away. The value to historians is not the object itself but it's context within the site. Artifacts found on the surface could have been dropped there recently or could have been the result of erosion or forest fire, in which case their location could still be valuable if the site ever is studied. But the argument is moot, since as others have already said here, removal of artifacts is not legal on public lands or on private lands without permission.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boyd

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,810
2,252
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Hey, he's looking for trash dumps to explore. It's really no big deal to me. I don't think he means midden dumps from iron furnace sites or places like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stamos

kingofthepines

Explorer
Sep 10, 2003
268
7
18
the final outpost
In the early years of the 4x4 cleanup the state provided the location of a very old bottle dump. It was too difficult to get to then and you may decide the same if you attempt it. Though walking out with a few bottles is a lot different than cleaning a large dump site. PM sent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stamos

Stamos

Scout
Jun 11, 2009
60
39
18
51
Shamong
Wow, who would have thought that the desire to find a bottle or two would spark such a fierce debate. As stated, I am not looking to plunder a historical site. I too frown upon that sort of thing.

I am looking for a good day hike with my girlfriend and my dog that may end up with us bringing a bottle home with us as a momento. Typically we find odd shaped branches that have fallen and turn them into candle holders to give to friends who appreciate the Pines as much as we do.

I would be honored if I found a bottle that a museum wanted to display! If I come acorss one that is of possible historic significance I will contact somebody at a ranger station to inquire about interest.

And for the record, I have been an avid steward for the Pine Barrens for nearly 25 years. I have participated in and been a sponsor of the yearly 4x4 clean-up many times over so lest you think I am looking to whore out the Pines for my benefit, think again.

Thanks to all for your input.
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,548
586
1,093
Watch your dog around old town sites, lots of broken glass. My most interesting finds (for me) happened while walking the trails and roads looking off to the sides. A couple of old beer bottles tossed aside decades ago. Every time I walk I try to notice something I haven't seen before, even if I walked there a hundred times.
 

amf

Explorer
May 20, 2006
127
21
18
Swedesboro
Don't mean to be late for this party, and not to weigh in on the issue of bottling on state lands (done a bit myself, but always on private farms), but a couple of observations: the authoritays take the issue quite seriously. One time we left a friend with our boats in Atsion while we went to set up a shuttle. When we came back he was getting a ticket. Seems he had been sitting on the foundation of the old mill and was idly scratching at the foundation with a stone he had picked up. Went to court and he ended up with a big fine for defacing historic property. Another time my nephew got a ticket in the mail because someone had seen him pick up a piece of slag, jotted down his license plate and reported it. I know in the Shenandoah any piece of junk (can, bottle top) over 50 yrs old is considered historic. Big Brother may not be watching you, but your neighbor is!
 

GermanG

Piney
Apr 2, 2005
1,048
329
1,063
Little Egg Harbor
Hey, he's looking for trash dumps to explore. It's really no big deal to me. I don't think he means midden dumps from iron furnace sites or places like that.
I think there are indeed old trash dumps that could be dug without doing harm to a historical resource. I used to dig bottles with a friend who worked for PSE&G out of Newark, who got into bottle collecting after recovering so many of them while digging up old utility lines in the city. Whenever he observed a building being demolished in the area that turned out to have been built atop an old dump he'd let me know and we did some digging on the weekend before the site was totally cleared and the new building started. Harmful? Not likely. Legal? Well........:rolleyes:. But over the years, as liability became a more common issue in all aspects of life, construction fences pretty much put an end to that, but it was nice while it lasted. Point being there are two extremes of artifact collecting sites with an arguable gray area in-between.

Stamos, please don't take offense at this discussion. There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate among friends, new or old. Friends have mixed it up here over off-road vehicles, hunting, and several other issues since the forum has been up. In the end you often just agree to disagree and move on. It's certainly nothing new that the internet often lends itself to misrepresenting the true feelings and intent behind our words. A better place to argue is over a cold pitcher of beer but who has the time! :)
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,810
2,252
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Here are a couple I did not leave on the ground. This was near an old homestead long gone. They were kicked up by the (hint below). The smaller bottle has an inscription: "Chas. B. Mathis Main Street Toms River N.J.

bottles.PNG


I wonder how many bottles are destroyed by the fire plow every year? Who is liable for that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: jburd641