Camera or GPS

[Teegate]

Al,

I am in the market for a new GPS or Camera. Not sure which I am going to purchase yet, but here are some of my thoughts.

Camera:


I need a point and shoot since they are compact, and I am only going to buy a Cannon. I have two in mind so far but I have concerns with one. This one has a pop up flash which may will fill with dirt from my “illegal” off trail hiking.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=15672


My next choice is this one since the flash does not pop up.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=183&modelid=15657

I would buy the first one right now if it were not for my concerns. Does anyone have a camera with a pop up flash that you would not buy again because of that?



GPS:

I guess I am leaning towards Garmin. Rob has the last one and likes it, and I believe Ben has the first one. And Scott I believe has the middle one. Any complaints on yours?

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=350

or

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=309&locale=en_US

or


https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=327&locale=en_US


And Boyd, what do you think about your new GPS being used in my “illegal” off trail hiking?

Guy

 

[Boyd]

And Boyd, what do you think about your new GPS being used in my “illegal” off trail hiking?

Well that's a tough one. I was doing a little "illegal" hiking myself yesterday, and am going back out again shortly - will post a report soon. I took all my toys with me yesterday, and this will give you some idea of the attraction of the TomTom with my homebrew Google Earth maps:

Unfortunately, the TomTom is optimized for driving and not hiking. So if you're moving at walking speed, it won't update your position very often because it thinks you may be stationary and it's just getting bad data. And there are some strange issues with it snapping to the nearest road which I'm trying to sort out. There are a couple 3rd party programs that run on the TomTom which can help with these problems, but again, nothing is simple. TomTom recently updated their system software and the new version doesn't always properly support 3rd party applications.

At this point, I think it's great if you want to carry it around and get a visual fix from time to time (as I did above), but it isn't so good for actually following a trail or figuring out where to turn. But it's great in your car, so it would be a great choice for getting you to the place where you head off into the woods.

The image maps feature works on all their models, even the $150 one (TomTom One LE) although it's probably slower at zooming and panning than the more expensive models (which would be the 720 and 920). Also note that you could scan a USGS topo map, or download from Topozone and do the same thing I've done with Google Earth (as long as you know the coordinates of the map corners).

Regarding the Garmins, I'm not sure the 76 series offers anythng the 60 series doesn't. Note that neither of those (76cx and 60cx) has the SiRF chips. You should think about that a little before buying. I'm generally very happy with my 60Csx (like the one in your link, but with SiRF) but it takes a little getting used to. It will get a signal in dense woods where my older units would never lock on. But it may not have the absolute accuracy. If you zoom all the way in you'll see that you get more of a "shotgun blast" effect. But if you average all those different readings it will be very accurate (so if you create a new waypoint and use the averaging feature it should be very good). But the map pointer spins a lot as you walk, and it can be hard to determine what direction you're going based on the direction of the arrow. I gave up on using the "track up" setting because the whole map spins around too much. But personally I think it's worth it since the GPS is pretty useless if it can't get a fix.

Aside from that, I really love the way the Garmin 60 series unit feels in my hand. It just feels very rugged and professional and is a great companion on a hike. I think the 76 series is bigger and heavier, not sure if I'd like it as much.

The Legend CX should be just like my old Legend C with the addition of a card slot. I liked that unit because of its size, but it had some issues with getting a fix out in the woods. There is a new version of that model too which I believe is called the Hcx (sorry, Garmin's site is acting strange so I can't post a link). It doesn't use the SiRF chip, but it has some other sort of new chip which is supposed to give better reception so you might check that out.

But I've seen some of your other posts where you mentioned the map pointer lagged behind your actual position. From my experience, all of the Garmin's suffer from this to one degree or another. The ideal, of course, would be trying some of the different models in person. Or maybe buying from someplace with a liberal exchange policy?

For cameras.... depends on what you want. Yesterday I lugged my DSLR and a couple lenses with me, and it gets terrific results but isn't at all compact (understatement!). Today I'm travelling light and will bring my Digital Elph SD 600. I bought this one because it was the smallest camera on the market at the time - it's really little, which is great since I can put it in my pocket and never even realize it's there. Takes very good pictures for a little camera too. That model is discontinued, but this looks like the replacement: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=145&modelid=14901

If you want something really little it's a sure bet. But you will sacrifice some of the features that a larger camera has. Hope you're having a great holiday; I'm heading out to spend the rest of the day deep in the woods!

 

[BEHR655]

Somebody got a Christmas bonus I see. Nice. Guy, the camera you use now for hiking takes great photos and is very compact. Don't know why you would want a bulkier one. The 1st one has nice features and the pop up flash is a better option than the other. Puts the flash where you want it.
And whats wrong with your gps? I think that money is just burning a hole in your pocket!

Steve

 

[Teegate]

Boyd,

I was actually asking what you thought about the Garmin Nuvi 650 that you said you purchased in a previous thread.

I will read your info all over later today.

Steve ... it is not burning a hole in my pocket. My camera is 6 years old and the macro has never worked properly. I have been very disappointed in this feature on my camera. I doubt there is anyone here who has not purchased 1 or more camera's in the last 6 years except me. I would be interested to hear from anyone who hasn't.

As for the GPS, mine has never worked properly. Ask Ben what I have to do to get it to work. He saw it this past weekend. I can't travel where I go and do what I do with a GPS that does not work properly. I payed the price once and now have to be cautious which I don't want to have to do.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

Boyd,

I was actually asking what you thought about the Garmin Nuvi 650 that you said you purchased in a previous thread.

Ah, I see... sorry! The Nuvi 650 went off with the kids on their trip to Michigan Sunday. If you want to look at the Nuvi line, check out the 750. It's actually a little cheaper and will display/record your track which is a feature sorely missing from the 600 series. The 650 has a flip up antenna though which gives better reception, but it wouldn't be practical to have the antenna open when it's in your pocket and the GPS turns off when you close the antenna.

Some people have reported reception problems on the 750, others say it's fine. But that's in a car - in the woods on foot I suspect it would be fine. And the screen is a huge improvement over any of the handhelds from Garmin. But there are other issues... internal non-replaceable battery with limited life (maybe 4 hours if you set the screen dim?), not waterproof. It's more of an automotive unit which can be used for occasional hikes. The Garmin outdoor units like the Legend, 60 and 76 are much more rugged and should survive occasional drops and submersion where the Nuvi will be more fragile.

Tough choices... nobody seems to have a 'one size fits all' solution at this point.

 

[Teegate]

But the map pointer spins a lot as you walk, and it can be hard to determine what direction you're going based on the direction of the arrow. I gave up on using the "track up" setting because the whole map spins around too much. But personally I think it's worth it since the GPS is pretty useless if it can't get a fix.

I basically always just use the arrow so the 60Csx may be out for me. It looks like I am leaning towards the 60CX or the Legend HCX.

If I get the Legend I already have the window mount and the carrying case, but I have concerns it will act like my Legend with serious arrow stalls. The 60 is bigger but may make it hard to hook to my window, and bulky to carry since I have to have a way to hook it to me when bushwhacking. I need one hand for the walking stick, and one free.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

FWIW, the 60 series comes with a belt clip. Although the direction of the the triangle which marks your position can spin, if you zoom way in it's obvious which direction you're going by looking at your track. There's another compass screen which will show the direction to your desination, and the 60csx also has a real compass, but I haven't really used these functions on mine.

For me, the ability to lock into a signal when other units can't is an important factor. If you can't do that, then none of the other features matter. And my old GPS'es (magellan and garmin) often had that problem under heavy tree cover. This time of year it's less of an issue though.

 

[Ben Ruset]

Oh that TomTom looks nice. Having an aerial photograph updating where I am would be so nice.

 

[Teegate]

For me, the ability to lock into a signal when other units can't is an important factor. If you can't do that, then none of the other features matter.

True, but if it is constantly fluctuating then I have a problem. When I get close to where I am looking for something I need the GPS to lead me to where I want to go. If I get close and it points in the wrong direction and I am in briers, nothing is more frustrating than that.

Guy

 

[Boyd]

Yes, that's a problem. You may find that you have to choose between the SiRF which gives fluctuating readings and the older chips which don't update the pointer as often though. I saw a detailed comparison of the 60Csx and the Magellan Explorist somewhere. The Explorist gave readings which appeared to be more accurate with less wandering, however they concluded this was because it was doing internal averaging of the data before displaying. The Garmin unit gave more of a scatter pattern, but the average of those points was exactly the positon the Magellan was showing.

 

[Ben Ruset]

I have the GPSMap 76CS and I can definitely say that the form factor of the 60csx is nicer to carry. The screen on the 60 series is smaller than the 76cs though.

They don't make my model anymore, but it's one of them from before they added micro-SD cards, so I was limited to whatever memory they put on the unit. At the time, the 76CS had more memory than the 60CS, which was important to me since I was going to use it for road navigation. Now that I have a nav system in my Jeep I don't need that and only use the Garmin topo maps.

The 76CS is also waterproof.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd probably get the 60Cx.

 

[RednekF350]

I love the 60CSX and we just bought another one for one of my sons.
I have the 60CSX and I haven't really experienced a significant wandering problem with the pointer.
If you are making decent headway it works fine. If you are walking a road, it does not hop at all.
If you are struggling through heavy brush, it will hop around a little.
It does have the electronic compass, which I calibrate often, that will point you in the right direction when you are standing still or hung up, or in my case, walking less than 1 mph.
In the "heading" page of the setup menu I have mine set to kick in the compass when my speed is less than 1 mph for more than 45 seconds.
You can set it to kick in at 5 seconds all the way up to 180 seconds.
The ability of the 60 CSX to get a fix is amazing. I have posted before about mine getting a fix inside a firing range building with no windows and my son's locked on last night in my sister's house and he was about 10' away from a sliding door that opened to a screened in porch.
Scott

 

[LongIslandPiney]

Get the A650IS!

OK some advice with Canon cameras. If money is not an object I'd go for the A650, it lists for about $400, which actually isnt too bad since this is a 12.1MP camera.http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=183&modelid=15658
The A6xx series of cameras is better because it has a larger sensor, the A5xx and A7xx use a smaller sensor. Sensor size and MP are 2 different things. Canon is cramming more MP onto smaller sensors, such as the case with the A720. Which means less image quality and more noise.
The A6xx series use a larger sensor which means cleaner, sharper images. They also take 4 AA batteries instead of 2, so you have to replace batteries less and quicker refresh times (which are significantly slower on the 2AA jobs).
Just be careful, many stores are selling the A6xx cameras above list price.
I was thinking of upgrading to an A630, but the prices are going up, instead of down, as they should with time.
The 5MP with my A610 is really enough, the only annoying thing is the jog dial on the bottom part gets stuck which means I have to press hard to get into manual focus sometimes, only started in the fall. Pretty good considering I have been using it heavily for over 2 years now.
If money is TRULY no object you can always get a DSLR, but I dont like proprietary batteries and the much larger, heavier weight of the things.

 

[Teegate]

OK some advice with Canon cameras. If money is not an object I'd go for the A650,

Thanks for the input. I went with the GPS for now, with the camera coming in the near future.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

Here is a review of it with a video.

Negatives. Heavy, slow processing the photo's at 12MP, bulky.


Positives. Manual focus which will eliminate the macro focus problems I have with my camera giving me better plant photo's.


http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-powershot-a650-is/4505-6501_7-32591553.html


Guy

 

[LongIslandPiney]

Here is a review of it with a video.

Negatives. Heavy, slow processing the photo's at 12MP, bulky.


Positives. Manual focus which will eliminate the macro focus problems I have with my camera giving me better plant photo's.


http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-powershot-a650-is/4505-6501_7-32591553.html


Guy

That's the downside when you go with high MP. 12.1 is overkill for me personally, I wouldn't go any higher than 8. Ideally I'd recommend the A630 or A640, but beware of price gouging as Canon has stopped making those models. Of course what the CNET guy doesn't tell you is that you dont have to use the full MP mode, the camera can take photos in smaller sizes for quicker processing. The 12MP is still there if you need it. Considering how I've seen many A630s and A640s going for $400, you're better off getting the A650 because of the IS and 6x zoom.
I also disagree with CNET's criticism of the size, smaller cameras generally have less features, proprietary batteries, and less picture quality (smaller lenses + smaller sensors = less image quality).
I'd hate to see how that guy would freak out reviewing a DSLR!:v:

 

[Boyd]

If you are struggling through heavy brush, it will hop around a little.
It does have the electronic compass, which I calibrate often, that will point you in the right direction when you are standing still or hung up, or in my case, walking less than 1 mph.
In the "heading" page of the setup menu I have mine set to kick in the compass when my speed is less than 1 mph for more than 45 seconds.

It's funny, because I just "discovered" that feature myself a couple days ago and sent Guy a PM about it. I got th 60csx several months ago, but have just started putting it to serious use on some long hikes over the holidays.

In the Heading Setup I've chosen a speed of 10mph for less than 5 seconds. Recently I've been "struggling through heavy brush" most of the time, and I think this helps. But you have to remember to hold the GPS level for the compass to work properly.

The manual also mentions that compass use will drain the batteries faster. I leave the compass on all the time, but I also bring a spare pair of batteries on long hikes. Since it's often after dark when I get home, I use the backlight part of the time as well. Under these conditions, I'm finding batteries don't last terribly long... perhaps 6 to 8 hours. Today the battery indicator was one notch down from full when I went out and remained there throughout a 3.5 hour hike. After I was close to home I just put the GPS in my pocket and didn't look at it, but when I got home I looked and it had shutdown with dead batteries.

So I think you need to make a mental note of how many hours you've used your batteries, because the indicator seemed to stay at one click below full until the unit suddenly shut down. Not a big deal for me since batteries aren't that expensive and it's easy to carry a couple spares.

 

[RednekF350]

I am very pleased with the battery life that I see with this unit, especially given the color screen.
I do carry a set of spare AA batteries when on a long outing.
I don't know if its my imagination or not but I believe the compass benefits from a calibration on each outing for the best performance. Only takes 30 seconds to do it.
The recalibration is mandatory after a battery switchout.

 

[ecampbell]

Guy, I too am looking to replace my Canon A40. Remember, you recomended it to me years ago, and I have been very happy with it, but it's time to move up. The SX100 IS has caught my eye also, and a friend just got a S5 IS from whom I am waiting a report. It's really hard to make a decision without trying them, but in general I like the way Canon does things. I agree with the comment on the larger sensor size to be a positive, and 8MP is plenty. I heard it's equivqlent to 35mm. One of my requirements is a long lense, at least 10x. Also important to me is the speed at which it can take successive pictures. Researching cameras on the internet has not been helpful to me. I don't know why here are so many cameras with so little differences, even in the Canon line.

What are you guys using and comment on the likes and dislikes. Is there anything new that will be coming out soon?

Ed

 

[Boyd]

I agree with the comment on the larger sensor size to be a positive, and 8MP is plenty. I heard it's equivqlent to 35mm

Unfortunately this is not at all accurate. Looking at the specs on the S5/IS, it has a 1/2.5" sensor (which is also the same size as the SX100 IS). This terminology is very confusing so I won't attempt to explain it here, but the best way to compare different sensors is by their diagonal measurement (like TV screens). That sensor measures 7.182mm diagonally. A 35mm film camera has a diagonal measurement of 43.300mm which is a HUGE difference.

All but the really expensive digital SLR cameras (DSLR's) also have sensors which are smaller than 35mm film. My Nikon D80 has a 28.400mm sensor diagonal. The Canon Digital Rebel XTi DSLR has a slightly smaller sensor which measures 26.680mm.

This doesn't make the S5 a bad camera, but its sensor is quite small when compared to a DSLR, and even smaller compared to a film SLR. As a point of reference, the tiny little Canon SD400 Digital Elph that I carry around also has a 1/2.5" sensor - the same size as the S5 IS, so you can't really look at the size of the camera body and draw any conclusions about what's inside without looking at the specs. If you're interested in Canon, here's a great place to start your research: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/

Of course, specs aren't everything. In the end, the best camera for you is the one which feels best in your hands and fits your budget.