Capturing/archiving old videotapes

enormiss

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Moderator Note: this thread was split from the thread about DPReview shutting down.

I'm also a moderator at DVinfo.net which was one of the first sites dedicated to the new miniDV cameras such as the Sony VX1000 and Canon XL1 around Y2k. That site is still owned and managed by Chris Hurd and he has no intention to discontinue. There's a pretty low volume of posts these days and only a handful of regulars, but there's a lot of knowledge in those old posts.

I have a bunch of miniDV tapes I should have put on PC / DVD a long time ago. Know a thread (or a subforum) to get a dope like me started? Browsed and searched there but it made my brain hurt
 
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Boyd

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I could point you to some Macintosh discussions, but you said "PC" and that gets more complicated. MiniDV cameras used IEE 1394 (aka FireWire) interfaces which were standard on every Mac for many years (up through around 2012). That standard was never fully embraced by PC manufacturers, and you had to get a separate capture card. These could be hard to find today, and hard to find new drivers even if you do.

Which do you really want? To put it on a DVD or get it into a computer file? Do you still have the camera that you originally used? This can all get kind of complicated after so many years, unfortunately. If you just want to burn DVD's, there used to be standalone DVD recorders (I had one) with firewire interfaces that could plug directly into a MiniDV camera. That's as easy as pressing play on the camcorder and record on the DVD recorder.

If you aren't technically inclined, you might just want to send the tapes to a company that will convert them for you and send you either a DVD or USB drive back with the video. No personal experience with those companies, there's one called "Legacy Box" that runs a lot of commercials.
 

Boyd

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Another option, if you want to try something different, would be to get a vintage Mac, something like this perhaps (you might want a bigger disk, or maybe just get a big external USB disk to store the video). I would suggest spending another $40 and getting the version with a 256gb SSD instead of the stock, slow 500gb hard disk if possible.

Not endorsing this company, but they do have a warranty and I bought a similar used Mac from them a number of years ago which has been great. Nevertheless, old computers have a way of dying. :)


These older Macs still work fine but run an older version of MacOS that is no longer supported, so not a good choice for things like online shopping. But would be fine for capturing video and it will include iMovie, which should be able to capture from most MiniDV cameras. It also has a built-in firewire interface, so all you would need is a cable (the 2012 was the LAST model with firewire however).
 

enormiss

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MiniDV cameras used IEE 1394 (aka FireWire) interfaces which were standard on every Mac for many years (up through around 2012). That standard was never fully embraced by PC manufacturers

Think I have a firewire port on this PC, never used it, assuming it works. Also a burner drive. Used a firewire card on the old PC when camera was new and did convert some tape.

Which do you really want? To put it on a DVD or get it into a computer file? Do you still have the camera that you originally used?

Just to get it to any modern usable (hopefully lasting) format. It was a slow (transfer) and tedious (editing) process.
Was hoping in 20+ years something changed :)
BUT I looked for the camera last night and didn't find it, I'll have to dig a little deeper.
Assuming the data on the tape is to a standard, can play a JVC (I think) on anyones camera?

If you aren't technically inclined, you might just want to send the tapes to a company that will convert them for you and send you either a DVD or USB drive back with the video.

I looked at one and they charged by the tape. Pricing wasn't horrible but I don't know what's on them and can't get past paying for what might be blanks or mostly blank. I'm just a DIY guy I guess...
 

Boyd

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Assuming the data on the tape is to a standard, can play a JVC (I think) on anyones camera?

"It depends". If you recorded in SP format (gave about an hour recording time on standard tapes) then the chances are pretty good. If you used the slower tape speeds (LP, EP) then it may be hard to read. Also, as cameras age the alignment of the heads can drift which may create a situation where only the original camera will work. They sold some extended play tapes back in the day that were thinner than regular tapes. Those can be problematic. You might try to find another old JVC camera if yours is lost. That *might* improve your odds.

If you want a "modern usable (hopefully lasting) format" then you don't want DVD. That is already obsolete, I stopped using and burning DVD's 10 years ago myself.
 

ecampbell

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"It depends". If you recorded in SP format (gave about an hour recording time on standard tapes) then the chances are pretty good. If you used the slower tape speeds (LP, EP) then it may be hard to read. Also, as cameras age the alignment of the heads can drift which may create a situation where only the original camera will work. They sold some extended play tapes back in the day that were thinner than regular tapes. Those can be problematic. You might try to find another old JVC camera if yours is lost. That *might* improve your odds.

If you want a "modern usable (hopefully lasting) format" then you don't want DVD. That is already obsolete, I stopped using and burning DVD's 10 years ago myself.
What format do you use now?
 

Boyd

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I don't do much video anymore, just some fun projects with my talented performing arts family. Still using a Sony XDCAM-EX1 that I got in 2010. It records on proprietary SxS memory cards. My old MacBook Pro actually had a slot for these cards but the format never caught on, it's been replaced with SD cards. So, I just leave the cards in the camera and connect to my computer with a USB cable to capture directly into Final Cut Pro.

I sure wouldn't want to go back to tapes! I have several hundred, mostly live performance video I shot before retiring. My employer didn't want the tapes so I got as many as I could because there's some real history there. A few years back I started capturing them all before they degraded. Got around 100 done and sort of lost interest. I didn't have any tape based cameras, so I got a used Sony professional DV/DVCAM/HDV tape deck from Adorama. That worked very well for the most part, but there were a couple problematic tapes with lots of dropouts.

@enormiss - there are a few threads about working with MiniDV tapes here:


this one might be of interest

 

stiltzkin

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We could probably derail the entire thread talking about video archival, it is a huge topic. I would recommend checking out VideoHelp, DigitalFAQ, and Doom9 forums for detailed guides and help, although I will caution that the amount of information is overwhelming and there are some highly opinionated people over there (as you might find in any niche forum) ;) Don't stress too much about it and find a workflow that works for you and your needs. What works best for me may not work best for you.

I would very much not recommend Legacybox; here is an entire video from channel VWestlife on the terrible quality of their work. There are probably other services out there that will do a good job, I just don't know of one.

I embarked on a project to archive all of our home videos during 2019-2020; for analog tapes (VHS, Hi8) I purchased some expensive and high-end equipment to do the playback and capture, and the post-processing and encoding was a lengthy and compute-intensive pipeline using Avisynth and a half dozen other tools. The stuff we had on MiniDV was actually by far the easiest, since it's already in a digital format. All you need is a computer with a FireWire port, a cable, and something like WinDV. That will give you raw AVI capture, and then you can encode as you wish from that, assuming you want to dramatically reduce the file size and make the content more usable/sharable. The encoding from AVI can even be done years later if you want; the important bit is really getting the bits off of the tape (which will deteriorate over time) onto something generally more long-lasting, like archival drives and/or a backup service.
 
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enormiss

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Finally found the camera, a JVC GR-DVF21. My daughter thought it was huge so I showed her a VHS tape and said this went into older camcorders. :D
Couldn't find the firewire cord so ordered one... Time for some reading up!

If I couldn't find the camera I was thinking of grabbing this and just reselling when done
 
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Boyd

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If it works as advertised, $80 would be a good price and make the process easier if you want DVD's. There are a lot of steps and software involved getting from tape to DVD on a computer! If you used that recorder, you could then just rip the DVD's with Handbrake to turn them into computer files.
 

enormiss

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I thought you talked me out of DVD LoL. Originally thinking DVD assuming the data would last forever and I could still watch them on TV.
Have a spare hard drive I was going to dump them on now. Thinking that would be easiest way to preserve and I could do whatever in the future...
If I put them on a harddisk would they play on a smart TV with a USB port?
 

Boyd

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If I put them on a harddisk would they play on a smart TV with a USB port?
I don't know what standards exist for that, sorry.

Yes, I no longer use DVD's. Just thinking of a way to make it easy though. I used a DVD recorder for a number of years when I shot performance video in Philadelphia at the Academy of Music. It was a "brainless" way to get video to people when they needed it in a hurry. I could burn directly from the camera for unedited video, or output directly from Final Cut Pro on the computer.

Of course, DVD was more widely used back then. However, the quality from that recorder was surprisingly good, so I would often burn a DVD of the finished video and then rip it with Handbrake into a .mp4 file to store on the computer. $80 just struck me as a good price, if it's in good condition. I mean, it would cost that much just to get the cable and adapter to connect firewire to my newer computer. :D
 

Boyd

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My daughter thought it was huge so I showed her a VHS tape and said this went into older camcorders. :D

Just for fun... my granddaughter with grandpa's camera at a family event in 2018 (she turned 13 last week... they grow up so fast!)

camera_op.png
 

enormiss

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Started moving from tape to PC using scenalyzer and it's working well.
Instead of one big file per tape you can set it to create new files for each change in recordings stop/start time.
You can even adjust the amount of time between stop/start for new files. It can instead start new files by detecting change in scene but have not tried it.
Since I'm not planning on much editing this is a time saver, mostly just renaming files (saved as date/time)...
Maybe I'm an idiot and all that is common among software, but I was impressed :D

Downside is not many options for saving as different file type. Currently AVI on internal drive, may convert + move to portable drive in future.
More research on the best format is needed, so far MP4 seems to be most universal.

If anyone needs to convert tape (does analog too) download the file and open the instruction PDF 1st.
It's well done with screenshots and you can decide if you want to continue with the install or just delete download.
 
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