Carranza ruins

[ecampbell]

Since the forrest fire service was doing alot of recutting of fire breaks and burning (no ticks) in the Carranza area, I have been exploring places I have been walking past for decades. Behind the Carranza Monument right off the Batona trail I found an extensive ruin. There is a cellar hole, trench, mortar, sandstone and brick work with plenty of threaded anchor bolts. Saw mill?
The whole footprint must be 75 to 100 feet long. Maybe some of you have seen it, but it's the first time for me, and I must have walked/rode by it 100 times.

Bricks and columns at one far end:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=401&pos=0

Close up of a column, sandstone and mortar base topped with bricks. The bricks are not red clay but an orange type with black dots in them (cinders?). They are well formed.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=401&pos=1

Cellar hole looking back from the columns toward the anchor bolts:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=401&pos=2

Anchor bolts looking bach toward the columns at the other far end:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=401&pos=3

Anchor bolts and trench:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=401&pos=4


Ed

 

[Ben Ruset]

I bet that's a sawmill.

I think John Pierce knows a bit about the sawmill operations in the area. Unfortunately he's only on the Yahoo group list, and I don't think he checks in here.

 

[woodjin]

That is a cool find Ed! sounds/looks like a sawmill. It seems that sawmills were far more numerous than most of us would have expected.

Jeff

 

[LARGO]

sounds/looks like a sawmill. It seems that sawmills were far more numerous than most of us would have expected.

Jeff

Maybe this is a help in dating if anyone cares or does not already know the period of what you found. The trench is consistant with the operation and at least one of the pics is of an obvious base.As far as the concrete truly being put into use that would likely be in the late 1860's when it's popularity would have been up.Steel reinforced concrete that bares resemblance was actually invented in or around 1949 but was not patented and had popular uses in making concrete slabs till much later.Prior to that, there were other types of crude concrete back to the early 1820's,not to be confused with mortar. Due to the period of the use of the steam engines I would put these bases to the later dates. It is funny that these two came along almost simultaniously.

As far as the many that y'all are finding, that's simple. They had to keep moving not only because of the areas they were wiping out but as the secondary result. Keeping the portage of the material down. As you can see you are not that far from a usefull thorofare. I'll stop, this really belongs elsewhere.

Glad you had a chance to see things you couldn't Before.

 

[Teegate]

We might have solved a mystery here! These may be the ones that are mentioned in the article as being near High Crossing, which is directly behind Carranza Memorial at a distance. How far being Carranza are they Ed? You can post the coordinates if you want since there is no worry about damaging them.

Guy

 

[ecampbell]

I went back today to try and get better pictures.

Anchor bolt detail, there are 10 of them, 4 on one side and 6 on the other side of the trench. They are .75 inch in diameter.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=406&pos=0

The few bricks that are present are not red clay, nor are they crudely formed. they remind me of the bricks used at my grandparents house in Philadelphia that was built before WW2.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=406&pos=1

There are no concrete slabs or reinforcement, just sandstone crudely slaped together with mortar.

Column detail:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=406&pos=2

Trench wall detail:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=406&pos=4

Strange piece of metal imbedded in the trench wall. It is facing up now, but appears to have been moved from it's origional position.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=406&pos=3

I measured the sites length by GPS, 60 feet.

39 46.143 74 37.604

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4402212&e=531968&s=50&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

Ed

 

[Teegate]

I have parked my car there and never saw it. That has to be the sawmill considered "near Highcrossing".

Thanks for the photo's and the coordinates. I will stop in on Saturday to check it out.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

It looks like we have found all of the ones mentioned in the article except the one at Penn Swamp. I just realized after reading the article again he says there "was" one between Atsion and the Bog on Quaker Bridge Road. "Was" being the operative word.

Anyone know where the Penn Swamp one is???

I may be moving this thread into the Saw Mill thread, so if you look for it and it is gone, check there.

Guy

 

[bobpbx]

It looks like we have found all of the ones mentioned in the article except the one at Penn Swamp. I just realized after reading the article again he says there "was" one between Atsion and the Bog on Quaker Bridge Road. "Was" being the operative word.

Anyone know where the Penn Swamp one is???

I may be moving this thread into the Saw Mill thread, so if you look for it and it is gone, check there.

Guy

I could swear Guy, that when I did my Bear Swamp Hill explore about 5 years ago that we saw concrete mounts. I remember jumping up on one I think. I believe it was on the Lake side of the road about 3/4 mile towards Sim Place from the Parking lot.

 

[Teegate]

We have discussed those ruins here before. I think you even mentioned them. I even received an email from my friend Glenn about them yesterday. I have never visited them but I think the consensus here was that they were some sort of cranberry buildings.

I guess I will have to check them out also. Maybe Saturday if I have time.

Guy

 

[BEHR655]

I could swear Guy, that when I did my Bear Swamp Hill explore about 5 years ago that we saw concrete mounts. I remember jumping up on one I think. I believe it was on the Lake side of the road about 3/4 mile towards Sim Place from the Parking lot.

Just there on Saturday. Gotta go with Guy, probably cranberry related.
Just behind there I found a good spot to put in the Oswego for an upstream paddle.

Steve

 

[Teegate]

All,

We visited the site of the sawmill that Ed noticed earlier this week, and took a few photo's. I also looked over the odd shaped metal Ed mentioned. I have viewed things like that at work and have an idea on what it is.

This sawmill must have had a swivel base on it that allowed the operator to either turn the log to align it, or turn the base to align to the log. The steel is the gear ( similar to a worm gear ) that was permanently mounted on the foundation, and there was a mating part that was on the Saw Mill itself. I use a boring head at work that has a similar look to it, just in a smaller size. It was either hand cranked or was motorized making this sawmill unlike any I have seen.

Here is a semi similar gear as an example.

http://www.hcfgears.com/product_files/gears/gear 6.jpg

Our sawmill gear looks like it has taken quite a bit of abuse and appears to be useless. I wonder if this one just wore out and they were forced to move on?

It is well hidden as Ed said, and even if you know it is there it is hard to see. The best evidence of it is the hole which is what directed Jessica to it. I was walking right on by until she stopped me.

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/teegate/main.php/download/1521-1/IMG_6529.JPG

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/teegate/main.php/download/1526-1/IMG_6535.JPG

http://www.njpinebarrens.com/teegate/main.php/download/1529-1/IMG_6536.JPG



Guy

 

[Sue Gremlin]

We found some ruins fairly nearby at 39 45.665 N, 074 35.745 W

It was right along Carranza Rd. Can anyone point me in the direction of some information?

 

[Teegate]

That is Sandy Ridge. I believe there were discussions in another post recently about that.

Guy

 

[Sue Gremlin]

That is Sandy Ridge. I believe there were discussions in another post recently about that.

Guy

Thanks, Guy, I will check it out!

 

[popeofthepines]

Yea i just found those same ruins this past weekend and I have driven past them 1000's of times. Guess I need to pay more attention lol