Closed to Mortorized Vehicles

[manumuskin]

you know the funny thing is.The people who are now controlling and patrolling this area will be free to drive wherever the hell they want to.I"ve seen the nature conservancy do this repeatedly.They buy land,seal off the road to everyone else and then proceed to use the same roads now gated to do whatever it is they want to do.Their vehicles to not harm the land but ours do.It's not about preservation,it's about control.Be less land they figure they need to actually pay people to patrol.The solution is keep everyone out since they have neither the time,men or inclination to actually catch the perpetrators so lets turn it over to the nature crew and give them control.More of our land again taken from us with wheels.hey why not turn the entire pine barrens into a roadless wilderness?If no one can drive it I'd go for that.Not like the so called mullica wilderness camp where the rangers may drive through as much as they want but that somehow does not destroy the wilderness experience as it would if we drove through.I say make it a wilderness and allow dispersed camping,ban all aircraft flyovers and change jet routes so we can have peace and quiet.you either hike in,canoe in or maybe hosepack it,otherwise stay out.Either all or nothing,leave us alone or make a wilderness out of it.Hows this sound?

 

[MarkBNJ]

you know the funny thing is.The people who are now controlling and patrolling this area will be free to drive wherever the hell they want to.I"ve seen the nature conservancy do this repeatedly.They buy land,seal off the road to everyone else and then proceed to use the same roads now gated to do whatever it is they want to do.

There's always that subtext isn't there? It's the "public" that needs to be kept out. Once they have been placed properly at arms length the connected and elite have all the access they want. Still, this was inevitable, and I would say inevitably the rest of the woods will follow as the various governments can deal with the rights of way issues.

However I can't join your criticism of TNC (disclosure, my brother works for them in DC). What you've described is no more or less than the practice of any private land owner, and overall I can't fault their approach to preservation. If you want to preserve land... buy it! Beats the heck out of lobbying Congress to use our tax dollars to buy it.

 

[Bachman's Ivory]

I do find this sad, there's good and there's also bad.

I have no doubt that the hundreds (perhaps thousands) of off roaders who abuse 1/4 miles will forge new roads and paths to get out there. I'm sure they will have no problem with knocking down and tearing out trees and anything else that gets in their way.

 

[46er]

All roads closed are access roads to 1/4 mile. NJTLC will be maintaining the signage and keep an eye on the area. You can get more info at njtlc.org.

And what will they have the authority to do should they find someone 'inside the line'? It would be very refreshing & helpful if all the information regarding the action and the reasons for it, were posted on the Wharton state site. Might just help to prevent honest misunderstandings.

 

[oji]

I think the best way to get any answers or to make comments would be to post on the NJTLC forum. Then you can get your answers directly from the source.

Njtlc are just a group of concerned citizens and have no more authority than any other person. We can write down license plate # and report them to the Park Police.

 

[ecampbell]

Njtlc are just a group of concerned citizens and have no more authority than any other person. We can write down license plate # and report them to the Park Police.

NJTLC was present yesterday morning helping to put up the signs that keep me out.
They could have gone to 1/4 mile and written down plate #s and not screwed over law abiding citizens.

 

[46er]

NJTLC was present yesterday morning helping to put up the signs that keep me out.
They could have gone to 1/4 mile and written down plate #s and not screwed over law abiding citizens.

Amen to that. And the questions folks may have should be addressed to Wharton SF, not a forum. That's where mine will be going.

 

[Boyd]

I don't have time to get up there and see what has happened, but on the surface I'm not so happy about what I'm reading here. Something needed to be done about the a-holes who were destroying places like 1/4 mile, but this doesn't really sound like the right answer to me. As Mark said, it sounds like an admission that they aren't capable of enforcing the existing laws.

The thread about "giving credit where due" on that other forum is pretty strange, with people arguing about who gets the bragging rights. I just renewed my PPA membership and made a donation in January. I will wait to see how this all plays out before deciding whether I want to do that in the future...

 

[bobpbx]

I don't blame the trail coalition at all. At least they are making an attempt to do something. It was the people who drove back there to play in the mud incessantly. I would however (if I were on the coalition) have argued for making it a temporary thing....say....3-5 years to give it time to heal. Except, I may block the old fire road permanently.

 

[Boyd]

Is a map going to be posted somewhere of the closed area? I know there was some talk of this last year. I am still trying to visualize exactly what's affected. Based on Ed's first post, I came up with something like this...

 

[RednekF350]

This topic is along the lines of a strange occurence that I just experienced a few weeks ago in another section of Wharton. Not too far away from 1/4 mile as the crow flies but separated from it by the Mullica.

In a remote area where I have hunted coyote this past winter and have hunted deer for over twenty years, the generic State Forest Regulation signs were mysteriously replaced with the State Forest no motor vehicle access signs.
This occurred along a little used road that sees the occasional hunter or woods rider.
What I found interesting was that this occurred during a stretch of really bad weather and I struggled to access the area with deep snow and frozen water holes on the way in for about a week.
I couldn't understand why this road would be posted by State workers during such an inopportune time. Furthermore, this was a little used area and was not abused in any way.
My wife theorized it was another hunter who took the signs from another area of Wharton and simply installed them here to keep out the law fearing woods traveler.

I put together a map of the area in question and gave it to a person who knew the appropriate people and asked to have the feelers put out. As far as the State being behind this particular posting, they came back with a big negatory.

Now I am really scratching my nearly bald head. Could the NJ Trail Lovers be responsible for this one too ???

 

[Ben Ruset]

As I have said for years, this is the beginning of the end of motorized access to the Pine Barrens. It's finally happening. Anybody who thinks this is the end is naive.

If you were wondering who's involved in this:
http://njtlc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=projects&action=display&thread=171

 

[oji]

Scott, Sunday was the first project by NJTLC. Any projects to be done have to first have the approval of the superintendant of Wharton.

 

[skip3]

I think " Muck " needs to delete his sig line........

 

[ecampbell]

Is a map going to be posted somewhere of the closed area? I know there was some talk of this last year. I am still trying to visualize exactly what's affected. Based on Ed's first post, I came up with something like this...

Mines Spung Road at Tuckerton, just south of High Crossing, is not posted. I went there today but did not take it very far toward Mannis Pond.So the SE corner of your map is not included.

 

[woodjin]

confused

Maybe it is too late and I am under the influence of sleeping pills but I am very confused by NJTLC's involvement in this. Here is the introductory post of the NJTLC that Ed provided before. http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/politics-pines/8086-new-jersey-trail-lovers-coalition.html

Gipsie clearly out lines that the organization was developed due to the threat of land access closures by the state. To provide alternate solutions to that action. On their home page they describe that the purpose of the organization is to insure that public land remain open to all legal users, and to address the abuse of public land. (slightly paraphrased)

Taking a quick read through some of the topics, that purpose seemed to remain as the primary objective. Like Ben, and most others on this forum, I have always been concerned about preserving our vehicular access privledges to state land. I was considering joining the NJTLC to help in this effort since the destruction at 1/4 mile was threatening that right.

So now we find out that it is this organization that are putting up "No Motor Vehicles" signs and, from what I read, actually built and constructed the wood supports or backings for the signs. And they are patrolling the area.

Maybe I am missing something but this is not adding up for me. I could understand closing the area of immediate damage in 1/4 mile, but it appears the closed area is far larger than that. It will be helpful to learn the exact dimensions of the closed area.

If someone could enlighten me, please do. Why would this organization, with involvement by people we know, and I respect, on this forum, condone this action.

Jeff

 

[RednekF350]

Scott, Sunday was the first project by NJTLC. Any projects to be done have to first have the approval of the superintendant of Wharton.

Maybe someone is pilfering the signs from within the NJTL organization and planting them elsewhere.

After reading a few of the posts on their website, the NJTL seems awfully proud of themselves for boning the general public.

This is a law enforcement problem in black and white.
Restricting access through signage will do nothing to protect the woods from assholes.

I suppose the Park Police will be much more comfortable writing trespassing tickets to a man and his sons on a Sunday afternoon woods ride than to a liquored-up group of screaming rednecks on a Saturday night deep in the pines.
That would be too scary.

 

[this_is_nascar]

The problem I have with all of this is that those who abused the area will either continue to do so or find another opened area to do the same. The common law-abiding "Joe" will the the one who is penalized by losing access.

 

[dogg57]

(NJTL)Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role.

 

[46er]

The problem I have with all of this is that those who abused the area will either continue to do so or find another opened area to do the same. The common law-abiding "Joe" will the the one who is penalized by losing access.

It was the easy solution; post a few signs, close off an area. Other than the signs, it appears nothing has actually changed regarding enforcement of the existing regulations. I would guess that the real offenders will probably just tear down the signs.