Computer

4x4Jim

Scout
Jan 20, 2006
55
0
Bob, I build my own computers and might suggest you do the same. I paid close to 1k for all my parts. 2.4 ghz Core 2 QUAD. 4 Gigs Ram. NVidia Geforce 9600GT. Western Digital Raptor 250GB HD @ 10,000 RPM.( I dont really need a lot of HD space for gaming) P5N-E mobo which you can Sli 2 vid cards for great performance. This thing was built for gaming but I don't really game anymore and it's blazing fast. I have Windows Vista 64-Bit, kind of a pain to find software but the 64bit is becomming more popular, it's very fast. Newegg.com and Tigerdirect.com are great sites to buy from. If you need any help I could probably give you a layout of pieces you would need to buy for what suits you. Yes if you running adobe your going to need a little more than an Integrated video processor. Also the load times you speak of have little to do with your unit itself, more of a service provider issue. I run Comcast Cable and have no problems with instant page showings. Also download songs at 100mbps. Believe it or not your HD has a lot more to do with performance than you think. This WD Raptor 10,000 Rpm is sickly fast. Its basically point, click, open. Just my 2 cents. PS theres nothing wrong with a nice 20-22" flatscreen. Nowadays you could pick one up for 150$. ~Jim
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,717
3,002
Pines; Bamber area
Thanks for the input Jim and all.

This is getting expensive. I bumped the memory up to 12GB Trichannel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066hz-6 dimm with the 23 inch monitor and photoshop elements standard.

I have not hit the order button yet. You probably know the feeling....hand over the button and saying to yourself.....well, let me think it overnite just to be sure. Then, overnite turns to a couple days.....
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,542
1,597
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
Thanks for the input Jim and all.

This is getting expensive. I bumped the memory up to 12GB Trichannel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066hz-6 dimm with the 23 inch monitor and photoshop elements standard.

I have not hit the order button yet. You probably know the feeling....hand over the button and saying to yourself.....well, let me think it overnite just to be sure. Then, overnite turns to a couple days.....

You absolutely do not need 12GB of RAM. 4-8 will be fine. You can (inexpensively and easily) add more later.
 

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,463
2,034
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
More RAM usually doesn't hurt, but I don't know that you will ever see the benefits of 12GB. I have Vista 64 bit with 6GB RAM and have never seen a situation where I've come close to using it all. And this machine is what I use to create maps with Globalmapper, a high end program that edits huge files.

But I'm really a Mac guy that uses a PC for mapping applications, so maybe there are other reasons why you'd want all that memory under Win 7?
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
24,193
6,345
I can take an educated guess that Bob does not use the major high end programs that would require all that Ram. I would go with Ben and say there is no need to purchase it. And when and if the time comes you may need it, the price will surely be cheeper.

Guy
 

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,463
2,034
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Evidently there are some issues with the 64 bit operating systems and certain software. I wanted it so I could work with huge files in Globalmapper myself. But at work, IT is not supporting 64 bit for VPN access because Cisco doesn't support it. I don't care because I don't use this machine for "work", but it's a problem for one of my staff who has 64 bit Vista on his laptop. Heh, he said he chose the 64 bit version because he figured "more bits are better". :)
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,717
3,002
Pines; Bamber area
Thanks for the advice about scaling back on the RAM. I suppose you are right. I was leaning towards it because I'll have up to 6 or 7 programs open at once:

Itunes
Photo editing software
Word
Excel
Usa Photo maps
Explorer
Outlook express

And I'll be moving and sending files and editing pictures and playing music all at once.....but I suppose 8 gb of memory will handle that? They say that the i7 processor is built to accomadate 3 channel memory, and its only an extra $160.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
24,193
6,345
Yes, you are correct 8 is more than enough. I'm backing down.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/memory-module-upgrade,2264.html


That aticle is a little long winded but it pretty much tells you the facts. In the end this says it all especially when you are getting 8 ram already.


We can only recommend larger capacities of 8 GB to 12 GB for professional applications where its usefulness has already been documented and for servers. None of our tests required high-memory capacities and wasted RAM is a burden both financially and ecologically.


Guy
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,542
1,597
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
I get along just fine with 4GB of RAM and I usually have a fair amount of apps open. What I've found that's slowed me down in the past are slow hard drives. This is more of a problem with laptops (which I use pretty much exclusively) than desktops.
 

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
70
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
I can take an educated guess that Bob does not use the major high end programs that would require all that Ram. I would go with Ben and say there is no need to purchase it. And when and if the time comes you may need it, the price will surely be cheeper.

Guy

As a developer I run a ton of software every day, from compilers to database tools, multiple remote desktop sessions, browser windows, etc. I have Windows 7 Enterprise with 8 GB of DDR3, and I have _never_ seen it use more than 40%. I think 6 GB is the sweet spot for Windows 7 at this time.

If you don't game, or you do and have a good video card, then the two biggest bottlenecks in any system these days are the internet connection and the hard disk. If someone wants to spend a few bucks wringing the last bit of performance out I would say get a 120-250 GB SSD for your boot drive.
 

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,463
2,034
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Well of course Google would like a faster internet, so you can watch more YouTube and click on more ads. And they'd also like other companies to spend the money to build it (aka "net neutrality"). Kind of like asking the fox if he likes the way the chickens taste. :)
 

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
70
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
Mark, what does that mean? I don't even know what a boot drive is. Is it someting on the processor card?

The boot drive is the storage media on which the operating system is stored, and which contains a little chunk of code that gets everything going when you power on the system. In almost all computers today the storage is a mechanical rotating hard disk, but you can also boot off of CD-ROM/DVD-ROM, USB thumb drives, flash cards, etc.

That mechanical hard disk is essentially the same technology we've been using since the mid-80's, albeit greatly refined. It's slow, moving perhaps 20-80 megabytes of data per second between the disk and memory, and suffers from lag time needed to move the read head to the right part of the disk to get data (what we call seek time).

The new thing, which will eventually completely replace the hard disk, is Solid State Drives, or SSDs. An SSD is a little brick of flash memory, like that in a SD card. They come in 30-250 gigabyte sizes. They are completely solid state with no moving parts, have zero seek delay, and move from 180 to 250 megabytes of data per second from storage to memory.

Unfortunately the cost per gigabyte of storage is still high. A 250 GB SSD will run you $600 or more. You can get 120 GB units in the $200-300 range. Still too high for my pocket, and in fact I just bought a new mechanical hard disk :). But an SSD is probably the number one high-impact performance improvement you can pay for at this point, so I thought I'd mention it.
 

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,463
2,034
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
I use video servers connected to big projectors for some of our productions at the Opera Company, and they had fast 64GB SSD's for the video files. Performance was very impressive. Glad to see the prices are finally getting down there - I think those 64GB drives cost over $1000 a few years ago.

There are a number of netbooks that use flash memory instead of hard drives now. They also use less battery power. Of course, netbooks are not known for high performance though.
 

LARGO

Piney
Sep 7, 2005
1,545
117
51
Pestletown
Windows 7 not the way i intended

I normally have no place in threads like this but...
So in the last storm the two unforseen power outages caught my machine off guard and did hard drive damage. Actually very little is lost but somethings are all jumbled up between two profiles and a temp it created I suppose. It is described to me as to envision my hard drive in segments and some of them corrupted, missing, physically damaged? whatever. A friend, and I/T fellow in my wife's church identified the issues, got my stuff on a USB hard drive (did I say that correctly? THIS STUFF IS ALL SO MUCH MUSH TO ME)
one of my gig/ram chips, whatever took a dump too. them are cheap though. Aside from me buying the stuff he simply will not take a dime for his efforts. Nice guy. There seems to be some stuff he needs to put back where it was and I gotta get all my Microsoft junk back in there but I think he is doing that for me. Like all the stuff I paid for right? can you tell I am useless in this? This machine would have been in the street and me crying the blues if not for my friend.
Anyway, he told me it is simply no better time than now to do the Windows 7 upgrade. He took care of all the particulars and it seems that given all my questions and concerns there will be no issues with anything that was on my VISTA system. When I got my machine from Dell, XP which I loved was just a month from going away. It has/had VISTA PREMIUM which while I was never overly impressed with, had no real gripe over. Every now and then I would run into a litlle quirky compatability issue and also it seemed as if there were more layers of stuff than I needed. (don't know if that made sense)
I am using my TOSHIBA laptop meanwhile and it is doing quite nicely. (my kids are far too liking it for my good) It runs VISTA HOME BASIC which I find to be easier for me, once I find what I am looking for.
My real problem using it is more my clumsiness with the laptop than it is the operating system.
Anyway, my guy has Windows 7 on his pc & laptop and he is a huge fan. He tells me I should expect to be very pleased. We shall see. For as good as ya'll can tell I am with this stuff, how could I be unhappy?
If it is more fluid and user friendly and I can get all my other stuff back in line again, good enough.
There was some music file corruption but I am not overly concerned.
I suppose I'll be peaking in more on these threads as I hope to pick up a thing or two about a thing or two from those messing around in (7).

Oh, Bob... best of luck with your gig.

g.
 

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,463
2,034
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Do yourself a big favor and get a UPS (uninterruptible power supply - also known as Battery Backup Systems). That would have prevented the problem in the first place. They are available at any "big box" store, like Best Buy. Just be sure to get one that has enough capacity to run your computer for long enough to shut things down in an orderly way. Usually there will be a chart on the UPS box that shows running time for typical systems. Bigger is better. :)
 

LARGO

Piney
Sep 7, 2005
1,545
117
51
Pestletown
Do yourself a big favor and get a UPS (uninterruptible power supply - also known as Battery Backup Systems). That would have prevented the problem in the first place. They are available at any "big box" store, like Best Buy. Just be sure to get one that has enough capacity to run your computer for long enough to shut things down in an orderly way. Usually there will be a chart on the UPS box that shows running time for typical systems. Bigger is better. :)

Here's the hoot boyd. In my business I sell occasionally UPS systems. Mostly MTE and over the years some LEVITON brand labelled systems but the latter was more retail nature and I am far from that world now. I have a generator division, always push battery backup in the industrial market as well as being a huge proponent of Surge systems, more commercial, by HUBBELL, MTE, SQUARE D and INTERMATIC.
This event was not a surge problem though and I do use two panel mount units for my incoming service.
I Know better but what is that told story about how the plumber's pipes leak, and the auto body man's car is rusty? As scolded by my friend fixing the system, even a small backup system would give the machine time to shut down in a safe fashion. Lesson learned. I will also be looking into some online backup. He seems to think Mozy is worth a look yet more than one person has thrown the name Carbonite at me. Any thoughts on this?

g.
 
Top