Deadly Traps in Wharton SF

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BobNJ1979

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May 31, 2007
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My feelings exactly. To step it up, and again not to argue but to get your prospective. Where as the person actually stringing the wire or involved in the action would be, if caught, charged with attempted murder, manslaughter or what ever. (purely hypothetical case) What would you classify an organization, group or person that would go to great lengths to publish the "how to's" to create and deploy such devices with the intention of causing random bodily harm to unknowing people??

Or, in the case with the houses being burnt down. The people who did it were arsonist and should be charged as such. The people who, what ever you want to call it, called this people to arms and supplied them with the know how and feed them the reasons to do what they did, what would you call them??

Maybe some people here are having a hard time separating the two groups. The persons who commit the acts because they think they are part of some great movement. And the people who feed on the weak minded, easily swayed to do their dirty work, so to isolate themselves from prosecution. Claiming 1st amendment rights to say what ever they like. Then stating
it's not their fault some idiot took them for what they print and carried out the fictionous instructions in their book or website.

Again, not arguing your points or comments, just opening the discussion to a different level.
Bravo and well said.. and i'm rejoining just b/c pinelandspaddler seemed to miss me.

Russell - remember, what an organization claims responsibility for and what they actually do/are involved in can be as different as black and white..
 

russell juelg

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Jul 31, 2006
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Bravo and well said.. and i'm rejoining just b/c pinelandspaddler seemed to miss me.

Russell - remember, what an organization claims responsibility for and what they actually do/are involved in can be as different as black and white..
No doubts there, Bob.
 
Jul 12, 2006
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I might as well chime in here. I think you guys are splitting hairs, getting caught up in the labeling of the act or those responsible for the act. The bottom line is that if someone is setting harmful traps in an area that is public and legally accessible to the public, that's a serious crime and should be punishable as such. I would only place a distinction or classification of the severity of the crime, based on its intent.

For example, if someone posted a sign that said "Keep Out", I'd consider that an illegal act. It's wrong to do, however it does not puts someones health or life in jeopardy. If someone decided, instead, to spread broken glass, planks with nails, thin wires strung across the road, etc, I'd consider that intent to be harmful and would treat that with much more severity.
 

russell juelg

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Jul 31, 2006
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I might as well chime in here. I think you guys are splitting hairs, getting caught up in the labeling of the act or those responsible for the act. The bottom line is that if someone is setting harmful traps in an area that is public and legally accessible to the public, that's a serious crime and should be punishable as such. I would only place a distinction or classification of the severity of the crime, based on its intent.

For example, if someone posted a sign that said "Keep Out", I'd consider that an illegal act. It's wrong to do, however it does not puts someones health or life in jeopardy. If someone decided, instead, to spread broken glass, planks with nails, thin wires strung across the road, etc, I'd consider that intent to be harmful and would treat that with much more severity.
I don't know if we are splitting hairs, but we are definitely in the realm of killing a dead horse. We all agree, I hope, nobody should be trying to hurt anybody out there. Anybody using violent methods to achieve their goals should be arrested and properly charged and tried for whatever crime it may be. If I find out who is stringing up wire, I will turn them in without a second thought.
 

Medford Piney

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Feb 25, 2008
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Medford
some info to read...

http://www.adl.org/Learn/Ext_US/Ecoterrorism.asp

Here's article of the history of some of the groups that have been labeled extremist and the crimes they committed. Some is very radical, I did not think it was really this bad..

Since in the debate we are "splitting hairs" and "beating a dead horse" using the term eco-terrorist, I will call them extremist.

here's another...

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/271


and a quote from a group I support...

“They are outlaws; they are terrorists; and they have no right being considered environmentalists.”

— National Wildlife Federation president Jay Hair, describing Earth First! in The Nation (May 2, 1987)
 

russell juelg

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Jul 31, 2006
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http://www.adl.org/Learn/Ext_US/Ecoterrorism.asp

Here's article of the history of some of the groups that have been labeled extremist and the crimes they committed. Some is very radical, I did not think it was really this bad..

Since in the debate we are "splitting hairs" and "beating a dead horse" using the term eco-terrorist, I will call them extremist.

here's another...

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/271


and a quote from a group I support...

“They are outlaws; they are terrorists; and they have no right being considered environmentalists.”

— National Wildlife Federation president Jay Hair, describing Earth First! in The Nation (May 2, 1987)

I don’t have any problem with calling someone an eco-terrorist if they are systematically targeting large numbers of people in the name of some ecological goal, but that seems to be a very small element of what is being labeled as such. Also, seems like the most violent element being labelled that way are not environmentalists so much as animal rights types. If somebody is threatening to hurt people in the name of protecting domestic animals, that has nothing to do with ecology.
 
Apr 6, 2004
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Russel Jeulg said:
I don't think anyone can honestly say that he is terrified about this situation. I suspect none of us will stop visiting the pines due to this situation. (Nor do the acts have any large scale impact, nor are the acts clearly designed to achieve any political objective--two components of what we normally consider acts of terrorism).

Whether or not anyone in the entire world agrees with me is completely beside the point. The only thing that matters is whether or not I have a logical position. So far, no one has proposed a logical counter argument to my position. I remain willing to listen, though
.

Very good points, Russel. I enjoy reading your posts as they are well-reasoned and level-headed.
 

Medford Piney

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Feb 25, 2008
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Medford
I don't think for a second that anyone here would even consider setting up any sort of trap in the woods and if they found one, would not hesitate for a second to remove, disable it or report it and place a warning until it is disabled for fear of another getting hurt. Because that person could be your own child or other loved one. There are some bad people in this world, (read the post with links above) and thank god they are far and few between.
 
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