DEP determined to resolve pinelands access disputes

NJChileHead

Explorer
Dec 22, 2011
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582
I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'm simply flabbergasted at the idea that they'll be able to enforce a permit system, but they can't enforce illegal off-road use. It's been said multiple times: the NJSPP don't have the vehicles to chase after ATV'ers and illegal ORV's, since they cut and run down smaller, sometimes illegal trails. Are they thinking that the people who do this are going to have an 'aw shucks' moment when told that they have to have a permit, or haven't they considered that people who do illegal things aren't going to stop until there are actual (serious) consequences?

Also, so they're (once again) planning to close down roads -AND- I'm going to have to pay for access to the ones that are open? Besides the taxes, besides the fishing license, now another fee.

Because people tear up the Pine Barrens in their trucks, I'm going to have to spend money on a piece of paper to show I'm not the one doing it. :bang:
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,952
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Pines; Bamber area
I think I'm the only one on the forum that is not really dissatisfied with the permit process. I've held back because i don't have a flak jacket. But I have to say, if it keeps some of the riff-raff and out of state people out, I'm okay with it. There, I said it.
 

Teegate

Administrator
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Sep 17, 2002
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I think I'm the only one on the forum that is not really dissatisfied with the permit process. I've held back because i don't have a flak jacket. But I have to say, if it keeps some of the riff-raff and out of state people out, I'm okay with it. There, I said it.
It won't keep them out. I wish you had not said that. There, I said it.
 

NJChileHead

Explorer
Dec 22, 2011
803
582
I think I'm the only one on the forum that is not really dissatisfied with the permit process. I've held back because i don't have a flak jacket. But I have to say, if it keeps some of the riff-raff and out of state people out, I'm okay with it. There, I said it.

Speaking only for myself, I have no problem with differences of opinion, so no flak from me. I'm more stuck on the planners' logic that it'll be an effective deterrent against those who break the law. That solution leaves me with more questions than answers, the biggest one being: if they feel that the permit will truly make a difference, why are they planning on closing the roads anyway?
 

Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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if they feel that the permit will truly make a difference, why are they planning on closing the roads anyway?
Because the goal is to do just that. When you have various clueless individuals pestering them relentlessly and a few in the media who caters to that crap, it is hard for the DEP to ignore. We are unfortunately seeing this disturbing trend occurring in all aspects of our life.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
12,952
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Pines; Bamber area
Speaking only for myself, I have no problem with differences of opinion, so no flak from me. I'm more stuck on the planners' logic that it'll be an effective deterrent against those who break the law. That solution leaves me with more questions than answers, the biggest one being: if they feel that the permit will truly make a difference, why are they planning on closing the roads anyway?
Did you go to the meeting? I called you but you were busy.
 
I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'm simply flabbergasted at the idea that they'll be able to enforce a permit system, but they can't enforce illegal off-road use. It's been said multiple times: the NJSPP don't have the vehicles to chase after ATV'ers and illegal ORV's, since they cut and run down smaller, sometimes illegal trails. Are they thinking that the people who do this are going to have an 'aw shucks' moment when told that they have to have a permit, or haven't they considered that people who do illegal things aren't going to stop until there are actual (serious) consequences?

Also, so they're (once again) planning to close down roads -AND- I'm going to have to pay for access to the ones that are open? Besides the taxes, besides the fishing license, now another fee.

Because people tear up the Pine Barrens in their trucks, I'm going to have to spend money on a piece of paper to show I'm not the one doing it. :bang:
Excellent point about the difficulties enforcing it.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
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They won't close roads like Quaker Bridge, but if you want to go on any that turn off of there you may be out of luck.
 
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Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
One of the questions that come up around this discussion seems to be the definition of "off-road."

Based on the editorial discussed here, it sure sounds like when your "car" leaves the asphalt it immediately becomes an "off-road vehicle" that requires a permit. But I guess we'll have to wait awhile to learn the details...

From the editorial:
“in general, permits would be issued for vehicle use of specified routes developed through input received via the access survey and stakeholder meetings.”
 
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dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,431
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camden county
I have no problem buying a permit to have access to the roads. But like most things it won’t be enforced and they don’t have the resources to do so. Like many things in NJ this will never be overly effective.
 

Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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I have no problem buying a permit to have access to the roads. But like most things it won’t be enforced and they don’t have the resources to do so. Like many things in NJ this will never be overly effective.
The problem is you will only have access to certain roads. The closed roads will be roads that others don't want you on even if you have been using them forever.

We all have to realize that "permit" means restrictions that the majority don't want. And remember, if someone sees you on a road that you should not be on according to them, your permit will be revoked and you are forever shut out of the places you love to go.

Everyone, please stop thinking a permit system is the way to go.
 

auto

New Member
Feb 14, 2014
13
9
67
As a long time off road cyclist/enduro rider I see this as the same as gun legislation. Penalize the working law bidding citizen. It's just another hoop to jump through to use OUR land.
 
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popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
201
68
Atco
Based on the editorial discussed here, it sure sounds like when your "car" leaves the asphalt it immediately becomes an "off-road vehicle" that requires a permit. But I guess we'll have to wait awhile to learn the details...

So does the person who blindly followed the GPS, in their car, and winds up on QBR for example, get a ticket for not having a permit while stuck in the sand? I have seen and heard about that happening more than once with families expecting a road and getting a road their vehicle is not designed for or that they are capable of driving on.
This is not a knock at you Boyd but just a scenario that can happen. They blindly followed a GPS, do they know or care about a permit system? Most likely not.
Truthfully I see the permit system being justified to help improve the roadways and parks that they have ignored for too long. And giving free access when they are underfunded or staffed makes no sense.

People will drive over the brown whips and be like 'catch me if you can'. As stated before and many times, the SPP cannot be everywhere catching everything so better numbers and equipment will help.

Went for a ride on Saturday. The only SPP vehicle I saw was on Nesco Rd headed away from WSF. Maybe he was getting fuel or lunch or taking the quickest way to Atsion, I don't know. We were out there and by Lake Oswego and Bass. 7 hours and we saw one. Figured I would have seen one at the lake on a beautiful day like that but nope.

I was fine with it, but it shows they are spread too thin. But hey, let's jam us all on one a few roads and it will make it all better. I don't think so.
 

Boyd

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So does the person who blindly followed the GPS, in their car, and winds up on QBR for example, get a ticket for not having a permit while stuck in the sand? I have seen and heard about that happening more than once with families expecting a road and getting a road their vehicle is not designed for or that they are capable of driving on.
This is not a knock at you Boyd but just a scenario that can happen. They blindly followed a GPS, do they know or care about a permit system? Most likely not.

I understand that you are in favor of a permit system, but don't understand the point you were trying to make about the car stuck in the sand, sorry. But actually, I was not expressing an opinion. I was just summarizing what I believe the DEP is planning to do, based on the article I referenced.
 
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Pinesbucks

Explorer
Apr 15, 2013
279
100
Absolutely no road closures. We do not need to pay any more fees. Unless it is a uniform fee regardless of usage or residency and they pass a law that it can only be used for enforcement, road repair etc within Wharton. It must be held in a certain account that can be audited at any time to see where the funds are going. It can not be bent by Trenton for some other use.

Enforcement is a problem that needs to be addressed. Why are the park police sitting at the point of 563 just below Jenkins or bodine field. Get in the woods. Most people who are illegal offroading are doing it in the woods that's where the Enforcement should be. In most areas you can see trucks with trailers for the bikes. Put a cop there and wait gotta come back sooner or later. Impound them illegal bikes and atvs. That will send the message real fast. Perfect example of this can be found in Greenwood every weekend. Everytime no cop in sight but you bet your ass 6 day gun season opens there isn't a shortage of wardens on patrol in the pines.
 
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