DEP determined to resolve pinelands access disputes
People long considered the New Jersey Pine Barrens remote, inhospitable and with little obvious commercial value — and didn’t care much what was done there. With the discovery of its
DEP determined to resolve pinelands access disputes
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'm simply flabbergasted at the idea that they'll be able to enforce a permit system, but they can't enforce illegal off-road use. It's been said multiple times: the NJSPP don't have the vehicles to chase after ATV'ers and illegal ORV's, since they cut and run down smaller, sometimes illegal trails. Are they thinking that the people who do this are going to have an 'aw shucks' moment when told that they have to have a permit, or haven't they considered that people who do illegal things aren't going to stop until there are actual (serious) consequences?
Also, so they're (once again) planning to close down roads -AND- I'm going to have to pay for access to the ones that are open? Besides the taxes, besides the fishing license, now another fee.
Because people tear up the Pine Barrens in their trucks, I'm going to have to spend money on a piece of paper to show I'm not the one doing it.
Also, so they're (once again) planning to close down roads -AND- I'm going to have to pay for access to the ones that are open? Besides the taxes, besides the fishing license, now another fee.
Because people tear up the Pine Barrens in their trucks, I'm going to have to spend money on a piece of paper to show I'm not the one doing it.
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I think I'm the only one on the forum that is not really dissatisfied with the permit process. I've held back because i don't have a flak jacket. But I have to say, if it keeps some of the riff-raff and out of state people out, I'm okay with it. There, I said it.
It won't keep them out. I wish you had not said that. There, I said it.
Speaking only for myself, I have no problem with differences of opinion, so no flak from me. I'm more stuck on the planners' logic that it'll be an effective deterrent against those who break the law. That solution leaves me with more questions than answers, the biggest one being: if they feel that the permit will truly make a difference, why are they planning on closing the roads anyway?
Because the goal is to do just that. When you have various clueless individuals pestering them relentlessly and a few in the media who caters to that crap, it is hard for the DEP to ignore. We are unfortunately seeing this disturbing trend occurring in all aspects of our life.
Excellent point about the difficulties enforcing it.I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'm simply flabbergasted at the idea that they'll be able to enforce a permit system, but they can't enforce illegal off-road use. It's been said multiple times: the NJSPP don't have the vehicles to chase after ATV'ers and illegal ORV's, since they cut and run down smaller, sometimes illegal trails. Are they thinking that the people who do this are going to have an 'aw shucks' moment when told that they have to have a permit, or haven't they considered that people who do illegal things aren't going to stop until there are actual (serious) consequences?
Also, so they're (once again) planning to close down roads -AND- I'm going to have to pay for access to the ones that are open? Besides the taxes, besides the fishing license, now another fee.
Because people tear up the Pine Barrens in their trucks, I'm going to have to spend money on a piece of paper to show I'm not the one doing it.
One of the questions that come up around this discussion seems to be the definition of "off-road." I've talked to a couple people who are in favor of restricting access who say they don't consider driving on public dirt roads like Quaker Bridge Road "off-road" use.
They won't close roads like Quaker Bridge, but if you want to go on any that turn off of there you may be out of luck.
Based on the editorial discussed here, it sure sounds like when your "car" leaves the asphalt it immediately becomes an "off-road vehicle" that requires a permit. But I guess we'll have to wait awhile to learn the details...
I have no problem buying a permit to have access to the roads. But like most things it won’t be enforced and they don’t have the resources to do so. Like many things in NJ this will never be overly effective.
The problem is you will only have access to certain roads. The closed roads will be roads that others don't want you on even if you have been using them forever.
We all have to realize that "permit" means restrictions that the majority don't want. And remember, if someone sees you on a road that you should not be on according to them, your permit will be revoked and you are forever shut out of the places you love to go.
Everyone, please stop thinking a permit system is the way to go.
The state DEP can stick there permit system where the sun don't shine and make sure it's sideways too the permit system is not going to do squat the only way is more enforcement PEROID END OF CONVERSATION
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Absolutely no permits. Enforce the existing laws. Maybe NJ can take its share of the new upcoming 87k IRS Agents and put them on road patrol.
As a long time off road cyclist/enduro rider I see this as the same as gun legislation. Penalize the working law bidding citizen. It's just another hoop to jump through to use OUR land.
Currently a 4x4 fishing permit is $200 for IBSP. I wonder what a permit for Wharton would start at.
So does the person who blindly followed the GPS, in their car, and winds up on QBR for example, get a ticket for not having a permit while stuck in the sand? I have seen and heard about that happening more than once with families expecting a road and getting a road their vehicle is not designed for or that they are capable of driving on.
This is not a knock at you Boyd but just a scenario that can happen. They blindly followed a GPS, do they know or care about a permit system? Most likely not.
Truthfully I see the permit system being justified to help improve the roadways and parks that they have ignored for too long. And giving free access when they are underfunded or staffed makes no sense.
People will drive over the brown whips and be like 'catch me if you can'. As stated before and many times, the SPP cannot be everywhere catching everything so better numbers and equipment will help.
Went for a ride on Saturday. The only SPP vehicle I saw was on Nesco Rd headed away from WSF. Maybe he was getting fuel or lunch or taking the quickest way to Atsion, I don't know. We were out there and by Lake Oswego and Bass. 7 hours and we saw one. Figured I would have seen one at the lake on a beautiful day like that but nope.
I was fine with it, but it shows they are spread too thin. But hey, let's jam us all on one a few roads and it will make it all better. I don't think so.
I understand that you are in favor of a permit system, but don't understand the point you were trying to make about the car stuck in the sand, sorry. But actually, I was not expressing an opinion. I was just summarizing what I believe the DEP is planning to do, based on the article I referenced.
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Absolutely no road closures. We do not need to pay any more fees. Unless it is a uniform fee regardless of usage or residency and they pass a law that it can only be used for enforcement, road repair etc within Wharton. It must be held in a certain account that can be audited at any time to see where the funds are going. It can not be bent by Trenton for some other use.
Enforcement is a problem that needs to be addressed. Why are the park police sitting at the point of 563 just below Jenkins or bodine field. Get in the woods. Most people who are illegal offroading are doing it in the woods that's where the Enforcement should be. In most areas you can see trucks with trailers for the bikes. Put a cop there and wait gotta come back sooner or later. Impound them illegal bikes and atvs. That will send the message real fast. Perfect example of this can be found in Greenwood every weekend. Everytime no cop in sight but you bet your ass 6 day gun season opens there isn't a shortage of wardens on patrol in the pines.
Enforcement is a problem that needs to be addressed. Why are the park police sitting at the point of 563 just below Jenkins or bodine field. Get in the woods. Most people who are illegal offroading are doing it in the woods that's where the Enforcement should be. In most areas you can see trucks with trailers for the bikes. Put a cop there and wait gotta come back sooner or later. Impound them illegal bikes and atvs. That will send the message real fast. Perfect example of this can be found in Greenwood every weekend. Everytime no cop in sight but you bet your ass 6 day gun season opens there isn't a shortage of wardens on patrol in the pines.