Enduro Club Use of the Pines
- Thread starter bobpbx
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I think this is what Bob intended to post; perhaps not. Another map bubbles to the surface.
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/...o-pinelands-trails-for-enduro-motorcyclists/#
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/...o-pinelands-trails-for-enduro-motorcyclists/#
Really?? Interesting statement from the PPA. I couldn't imagine one group secretly meeting and not including all stakeholder groups in a decision to open or close trails, who would do such a thing?
The DEP’s map showing non-sensitive areas in the Brendan T. Byrne forest was obtained through a request under the Open Public Records Act by the Pinelands Preservation Alliance, an environmental nonprofit that accuses the DEP of excluding some stakeholders from the discussion over trail access.
The DEP’s map showing non-sensitive areas in the Brendan T. Byrne forest was obtained through a request under the Open Public Records Act by the Pinelands Preservation Alliance, an environmental nonprofit that accuses the DEP of excluding some stakeholders from the discussion over trail access.
Outside of the enduro races........I always thought that dual sport bikes were legally allowed at anytime on single track and firecuts....is that correct? Or has the use of single track and firecuts been allowed but not necessarily legal? Anyone know for certain? Reading the State Forest regs it is unclear. It would appear that dual sport bikes are allowed on sand roads and trails (like any other licensed, insured, registered vehicle) but not off road (including single track and firecuts). Thoughts?
There is much more to worry about out there than enduro races. We need to worry about people who think we will forget.
Fair enough but I was more interested in non enduro racing dual sport activities in the Pines and whether it was/is legal to drive off road on single track and firecuts. The enduro racing folks seem to have their stuff together and run a tight ship but independent riders outside of events...what is their legal status off road(s)?
I think for those people, that would violate forest regulations.
I don't have a problem with Enduros at all. They are part of the Pine Barren tradition. But with that said, it would be great if:
--They were planned to avoid sensitive areas.
--They were all mapped.
--After a certain amount (like a quantity of 30-40 throughout the designated Pinelands), no more could be constructed. Use the old ones, and let them lie fallow for a few years between events.
I did find the following in the article.
"Opening up some single track would mean a change in the DEP’s existing policy which states that: “The creation or use of single-track trails for motorized use is prohibited.”
I believe riding in fire cuts was not permitted but it's be impossible to enforce. It's also important to note most plowlines go through upland pines and are only used for control burns. Lowlands and swamps rarely have plow lines if at all.
You'd be surprised John, how often firecuts do go through small pockets of lowlands at times while traversing uplands. These are not often shown on the maps, and are very small (say, 10 yards diameter) but they are out there and are definitely violated by the plow. Also, even those that go strictly through uplands (by chance and not simply by plan) are a threat to pine snake dens. Not that I have evidence, but still...
Bob I agree some do go through small patches of lowlands. It's impossible to completely avoid them. I can think of a couple around me but there aren't that many. I just wanted to point out that by design they usually avoid lowlands. I might add that ones that weren't planned out and made during a fire usually are the ones that violate the wetlands the most. Any time a plow goes through the pines highland or low land it is disturbing nature or possibly even history.
True words you spoke there Smoke.
Saturday, I was doing some exploring on Webb's Mill Branch back by Carusoville. They had recently burned there next to the lake. A good thing yes, but they dozed that road open again; needlessly in my opinion. But at least they created a sand mound to close it off. I parked where I was going in, and here comes a couple guys on KTM dual sports on that freshly-dozed road. They went over that mound and rooster-tailed the sand in a big spray. That mound won't last.
BTW: they looked like nice bikes, maybe 450's. I wonder if I'm too old to get back into it.
I believe that is the current process
The clubs need to select from a "menu" of established roads for an event.
No new trail can be constructed, no firecuts (event or otherwise)
They lie fallow some as the clubs change up route from year to year so its not monotonous
Motorcycles are not causing anymore damage to the forest than A control burn does. I been riding the pines for
Over 50 years and it has not changed that much. Riding in the fire cuts helps keep them open. That idiot Al Horner
Wants to close the forest off to everyone. He has no consideration for anyone else.
Over 50 years and it has not changed that much. Riding in the fire cuts helps keep them open. That idiot Al Horner
Wants to close the forest off to everyone. He has no consideration for anyone else.
I ride enduro events throughout the Northeast and belong to an Enduro club in NJ. All of the chosen paths are highly scrutinized by DEP and must be approved in writing by them as well. Of all the NJ events (I've ridden them all), there was only one event in which there was a wet area however there had been a torrential downpour at the time.
I've posted a response to Al's "alternative facts" on his blog before, and although well-intentioned, he usually creates a narrative that fits his mold rather than rely on the truth.
In Pennsylvania, there are many enduro events, and one of the most successful events works with the state/county/town to alternate the course every year. They have 3 courses to choose from, and each year the rotate the course among the three. This gives each course a 3 year respite.
I've posted a response to Al's "alternative facts" on his blog before, and although well-intentioned, he usually creates a narrative that fits his mold rather than rely on the truth.
In Pennsylvania, there are many enduro events, and one of the most successful events works with the state/county/town to alternate the course every year. They have 3 courses to choose from, and each year the rotate the course among the three. This gives each course a 3 year respite.
If by firebreaks, which could mean almost any path or road in the woods, you are referring to what are more commonly called plow lines by the FFS, riding bikes on them would do virtually nothing as far as the the needs of the FFS go. They are not intended to be wildfire breaks and are far too narrow to have that effect. They are starting lines for prescribed burns and are re-plowed each and every time the tract is burned. In order to keep the torched line of fire from crossing the plow line, burning with the wind and potentially moving up into the canopy and escaping control, there has to be virtually no twigs, leaves or needles in the line, hence the need to plow it prior to the burn. Motorcycles would be useless in that role. I'm not addressing any negative effects blamed on bikes or quads but this defense is a bit of a reach. I think allowing vehicles (not mudders) on historic woods roads for that reason is more defensible on the other hand. These roads can and will grow in over time without vehicles using them and the FFS has a stake in keeping them open as well as the rest of us.
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I think there was a misunderstanding. I was not implying that fire cuts (plow lines) were a means to reduce the spread of wildfire directly, I was recognizing them as a way of reducing wildfire through their usefulness in controlled burns (which reduce the spread of wildfire). I can see that I didn't make that clear. If the plow lines are actually re-plowed at each burn, then motorcycles would not be a factor as you stated. I was not sure if they were actually re-plowed each time or cleared by more conventional methods before a prescribed burn. If the later was true, then motorcycles would be advantageous in reducing the effort needed to clear the existing plow line manually. After an endure those fire cuts are very clear. But, if as you stated the cuts are always re-plowed then I guess it wouldn't matter.
Yes they are always replowed before a prescribed burn. They need to be down to mineral soil. Keeping them open really does not help any but no additional harm either. Keeping roads open is much more important.