Guest Opinion: Devise a user-friendly vision for the Pinelands (Albert Horner)

SuperChooch

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Aug 26, 2011
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Nope, same thing keeps happening for me. Try re-loading the page a few times. Sometimes it loads, other times I get the error, other times it's just blank.
Ok, I'll take another look, thanks for letting me know.
 
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SuperChooch

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I remember that group, but have heard nothing anywhere about it over the last year or so. The last time I checked, there had not been any activity on its forum for over a year. Thought it was disbanded. The fire has to be stoked to keep it burning. Just my experience being involved with non-profits; it's too easy to be forgotten, and yes, it takes a lot of commitment, time and work.
This is a fair criticism/concern. See my response to Joe as part of the dilemma, but we could certainly post more frequently. I should add that we do a much better job keep our FB page updated than our web page:

 

Broke Jeep Joe

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I'm not entirely sure what the implication is here, but I'll explain what I mean. 46er actually hit the nail on the head: the fire has to be stoked to keep it burning and to further his analogy, I'll add that the the fire also needs fuel to burn. What I mean is that to publically rally large numbers of people to action, they need something to rally around. Aside from the handful of issues we have seen over the last couple years and the rants of a few extremists, there has not been any significant adversities on this front. As a result, it is difficult to rally for public action and not risk being dismissed as the boy who cried wolf. As I said before, we are still very active, currently in a less publicly visible form. (current website issues are unrelated, which I'll look into next :)) . That being said, I'm just offering my humble and fallible opinion and we are open to help and suggestions. If you are willing to help and have some ideas, reach out and let me know!
The implication is that the OTNJ has sat idly by while gated closures continue based on the earliest renderings of the MAP. The implication is that when West Mill Rd. was closed the OTNJ was contacted and an "oh well" type of response was handed back with not even an attempt to pursue what was an unlawful closure. But you must know all that from working so closely with the state. Truth of the matter is that a few members here and I have diligently worked on that lost cause and are at a resolve. There has been no mention of ongoing projects for the maintaining of access to Wharton. You call for volunteers, if there are no issues in your eyes what are we volunteering for? It seems after the "big push" we'll call it many folks lost sight of a much bigger picture feeling a false victory. There are many more miles to go, and your post above reveals where you are at, I think '6er put it nicely, but I'll come right out and say it, if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen and let another chef in. Lastly I'm not the only one that feels this way toward the current OTNJ leadership.
 
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SuperChooch

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The implication is that the OTNJ has sat idly by while gated closures continue based on the earliest renderings of the MAP. The implication is that when West Mill Rd. was closed the OTNJ was contacted and an "oh well" type of response was handed back with not even an attempt to pursue what was an unlawful closure. But you must know all that from working so closely with the state. Truth of the matter is that a few members here and I have diligently worked on that lost cause and are at a resolve. There has been no mention of ongoing projects for the maintaining of access to Wharton. You call for volunteers, if there are no issues in your eyes what are we volunteering for? It seems after the "big push" we'll call it many folks lost sight of a much bigger picture feeling a false victory. There are many more miles to go, and your post above reveals where you are at, I think '6er put it nicely, but I'll come right out and say it, if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen and let another chef in. Lastly I'm not the only one that feels this way toward the current OTNJ leadership.
Joe, we've seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot here. I never said there were no issues. I never said it was over. I never said that we knew everything. I never said that that we weren't willing to allow room for others. (I think I said exactly the opposite of all those things in these posts and others, actually :) ) As far as i'm concerned, we are all on the same team, fighting for the same cause. If you think we should be doing something different or additionally, tell us. If you think you can make a difference, join us. If you don't like us, start your own group. I'm perfectly happy with any of those options because they all help advance our shared goals, which is to maintain access. Regarding volunteer efforts, the reason we have continually advocated for them is that we can proactively resolve problems which either give extremists ammunition or give the state reasons to take actions that we don't want them to take. (Such as large scale closures) So I would argue that volunteer efforts are needed to stop "issues" before they start.

Why haven't there been any recently? Well, that is a great question. Depite numerous attempts, all recents requests for us to help with state run volunteer efforts have been ignored. Why that is, I don't know. But that is certainly an area where people can help. Reach out to the state and tell the you want to there to be more volunteer efforts that will protect problem areas and avoid mass closures.

Finally, regarding the West Mill Rd topic, you're right, this hasn't been solved and we haven't been able to solve it. That doesn't mean that we haven't worked on it. It sounds like you might have made some made some progress there and that is great. If you'd like to share with me privately what you've found and if we can help, I'd be glad to hear about it.
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

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Joe, we've seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot here. I never said there were no issues. I never said it was over. I never said that we knew everything. I never said that that we weren't willing to allow room for others. (I think I said exactly the opposite of all those things in these posts and others, actually :) ) As far as i'm concerned, we are all on the same team, fighting for the same cause. If you think we should be doing something different or additionally, tell us. If you think you can make a difference, join us. If you don't like us, start your own group. I'm perfectly happy with any of those options because they all help advance our shared goals, which is to maintain access. Regarding volunteer efforts, the reason we have continually advocated for them is that we can proactively resolve problems which either give extremists ammunition or give the state reasons to take actions that we don't want them to take. (Such as large scale closures) So I would argue that volunteer efforts are needed to stop "issues" before they start.

Why haven't there been any recently? Well, that is a great question. Depite numerous attempts, all recents requests for us to help with state run volunteer efforts have been ignored. Why that is, I don't know. But that is certainly an area where people can help. Reach out to the state and tell the you want to there to be more volunteer efforts that will protect problem areas and avoid mass closures.

Finally, regarding the West Mill Rd topic, you're right, this hasn't been solved and we haven't been able to solve it. That doesn't mean that we haven't worked on it. It sounds like you might have made some made some progress there and that is great. If you'd like to share with me privately what you've found and if we can help, I'd be glad to hear about it.
So this wasn't your statement:
Granted, we have less visible externally, because there hasn't been any real developments of late
You are saying there are no developments however almost every week we discuss another closure here. As far as it being over, perception is reality. If you are choosing to be the voice of the people, you can't maintain in a vacuum or be "less visible externally" I don't need to start my own group because I am in yours and I am telling you the perception of the public towards what is allegedly being done for the greater good by the OTNJ and the way the public is viewing them, as non-existent . Where was your call for volunteerism when the gates and placards were put up along Carranza Rd? Where are our newspaper articles and channel 6 expo's regarding what we have done for the pines? There are some ideas for you to work on.
You haven't been able to solve West Mill because you have done NOTHING about it. Heavy is the head that wears the crown I realize, but you cant internalize and play all your cards close to the vest, you need help, I see it, everyone does, but if you don't ask no help will come John.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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I'm not escalating Guy, simply stating fact. This is a discussion board after all and I am discussing the OTNJ with John, plain and simple. He asked the implication of my original post and I explained. If you and the good folks here would like it to end, consider it done sir.
 

SuperChooch

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I’m also not looking to escalate. I have no issue accepting criticism, as you said Joe, heavy is the head. Perhaps our oppions differ a bit but we ultimately are fighting for the same thing. My offer remains to all here, I’m willing to accept any feedback, help or criticism. Peace, Joe.
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

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I provided all the feedback you should need, and our opinions are quite different in the view of OTNJ direction but the fight for the cause is there. You can always contact me for help John, have a good evening
 

Teegate

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I did not tell you to stop. I just am trying to keep this from the slag heap.
 
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mowergod

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Apr 9, 2011
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Ok the idea of more access is friggen nuts my personal opinion of the blowhards article is one of two things is 1 watch this hand while the other stabs us in the back (ie road closure, areas off limits) or 2 more access at PPA approved sites and roads by only the PPA and the like neather is what is needed things are ok the way they are except the enforcement of the rules and again it comes down to more staff and off road capable vehicles are what's needed and to those who can't read a paper map and need to use on road GPS your nuts and don't belong going into the woods (in my opnion) and unfortunately we are going to keep hearing these pushes from those from the PPA as they adjust there way of doing things to advance there agenda to get what they want in the meantime we as a group need to converge on the seen and start pressuring the people in charge to stop the insanity and unfortunately with gov cuckoo bananas in charge we're sorta screwed right now
 
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SuperChooch

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So does OTNJ have any thoughts on the Al Horner piece that started this thread and is there a rebuttal being formed?
My opinion on the opinion piece is that it is inconsequential. If you look at the article itself on the BCT site, it has 0 comments, which is probably indicative of what the general population thinks of it. On every outdoor enthusiast forum I saw it posted on, it was trounced, and in typical Al fashion, he seemed to wade in and antagonize everyone and make it worse.

As for what OTNJ does next, I think I have heard from this group that you would like us to be more visible, with more communications and volunteer efforts. As mentioned previously the state seems to not be interested in working with us at the moment, but we could look at other efforts outside of state property. If anyone has any candidates they would like to suggest, please let me know. I'll also talk to the team about others ways we can increase our visibility and effectiveness. Stay tuned! :)
 
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WaretownMike

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Jul 16, 2013
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Al will not be satisfied until only his interests are served, and those he dislikes are banned and locked out of the forest. What he wants is to turn the Pine Barrens into a state park- via maintained and marked trails, porta potties everywhere, all users banned except for pedestrians.
 

mowergod

Scout
Apr 9, 2011
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Newtonville
Al will not be satisfied until only his interests are served, and those he dislikes are banned and locked out of the forest. What he wants is to turn the Pine Barrens into a state park- via maintained and marked trails, porta potties everywhere, all users banned except for pedestrians.
I think your exactly right except you for got one thing that him and the PPA are the only ones aloud to drive in the pines
 

WaretownMike

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Jul 16, 2013
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I think your exactly right except you for got one thing that him and the PPA are the only ones aloud to drive in the pines
The PPA has worked tirelessly to make sure to control several access points to the Pine Barrens while simultaneously blocking others access. PPA is more than happy to accept Payment for access and to sell guided tours