Hunting

[46er]

We've already basically got a shooting war along the southwestern border. Perfect opportunity for the Canadians to hit us from the north. We know they have long coveted Detroit and our side of the Falls.

We should have taken those Canucks in 1935 when we had the chance.

Raiding the Icebox;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412.html

 

[46er]

Like most hunters, I try to fill my freezer with meat and fowl for food and would never float a duck or leave a deer or bird behind.....

Here's to hoping everyone keeps an open mind.

How did the pooch do? Season starts for us on Monday

 

[PINEY MIKE]

How did the pooch do? Season starts for us on Monday

Monday huh? Where the heck are you? They extended the season due to snow here so we'll be out again tomorrow AM. Its the second season with my 1 1/2 year old pointer. What a difference this years been. He was good last year for a pup, but outstanding this year. I was planning on building a bird coop for field training in the off season, but after this year I dont think he needs it. He has been great to watch and work with. Thanks for asking. How is your dog/s? Brittany right?

 

[46er]

Monday huh? Where the heck are you?

I'm in the same place here in Jersey. I stopped hunting the 'normal' season a couple years back, too crowded for me. Several times I found myself in someones sights as they swung on a bird. I figured it would be worse with the changes to the quail reg's. Jan/Feb has no one around but the birds, we'll see if that has changed. This month should be interesting with the delayed release. Cody's fine, he's 14 now so it's half days in the field for us.

 

[jburd641]

Everyone can have an opinion on hunting, but if you dont hunt, Im guessing you dont have enough info to make assumptions on ethical ways to do it (such as driving deer). Like most hunters, I try to fill my freezer with meat and fowl for food and would never float a duck or leave a deer or bird behind.. thats rediculous. I dont rant to people who put hunting down and then they go shop in the meat and poultry departments. Not sure why some people have so much to say about hunting and know nothing about it (not aimed at anyone here). I try to keep things as organic and humane as possible. If driving the woods helps some of us to do this, Im unsure why a few of you are bothered by it? Maybe you can shed some light as to why it bothers you? Its been a tradition of hunters in the pines for over a hundred years and puts food on the table, as well as keep numbers in check. Driving during shotgun only lasts a week, unlike other open seasons. I can see how some people might be offended by baiting deer, but I think driving the woods is a different ballgame.
Anyway, hunters might "whine" at you because they dont want to shoot you. Dont wear the blaze if you dont want to. For future reference, deer cannot see blaze orange and its so other hunters dont shoot you, especially on deer drives or upland bird hunting (where by law you must have blaze clothing).
On a side note, Im sure many posters on this site belong to different environmental organizations. I just want to add that hunters and fresh water fishermen pay costs for license fees and stamps, as well as donations or yearly renewal fees to many clubs and organizations that spend time and money fighting to purchase and protect wild lands, watersheds, and wetlands. Probably more so than the average person would ever think. I realize no one here is putting down hunting, but wanted to shed some light to a little skepticism I sensed. Here's to hoping everyone keeps an open mind.

Thanks for giving a different opinion on driving deer. I had no idea there was a season for driving. The reason I don't like it, and I may be wrong, is I was told hunting is a sport. Just doesn't seem very sporting. Sort of like netting fish. Just my opinion...for what it's worth.

 

[manumuskin]

Everyone can have an opinion on hunting, but if you dont hunt, Im guessing you dont have enough info to make assumptions on ethical ways to do it (such as driving deer). Like most hunters, I try to fill my freezer with meat and fowl for food and would never float a duck or leave a deer or bird behind.. thats rediculous. I dont rant to people who put hunting down and then they go shop in the meat and poultry departments. Not sure why some people have so much to say about hunting and know nothing about it (not aimed at anyone here). I try to keep things as organic and humane as possible. If driving the woods helps some of us to do this, Im unsure why a few of you are bothered by it? Maybe you can shed some light as to why it bothers you? Its been a tradition of hunters in the pines for over a hundred years and puts food on the table, as well as keep numbers in check. Driving during shotgun only lasts a week, unlike other open seasons. I can see how some people might be offended by baiting deer, but I think driving the woods is a different ballgame.
Anyway, hunters might "whine" at you because they dont want to shoot you. Dont wear the blaze if you dont want to. For future reference, deer cannot see blaze orange and its so other hunters dont shoot you, especially on deer drives or upland bird hunting (where by law you must have blaze clothing).
On a side note, Im sure many posters on this site belong to different environmental organizations. I just want to add that hunters and fresh water fishermen pay costs for license fees and stamps, as well as donations or yearly renewal fees to many clubs and organizations that spend time and money fighting to purchase and protect wild lands, watersheds, and wetlands. Probably more so than the average person would ever think. I realize no one here is putting down hunting, but wanted to shed some light to a little skepticism I sensed. Here's to hoping everyone keeps an open mind.

Mike,
I used to hunt with my Dad in my teens and twenties and he was a pot hunter hunting from stands either alone or with me or a friend.He hated drivers because they always drove the deer away from him starting at a field visible from the stand and driving toward him.I never understood why he cussed the drivers every year and almost had shhot outs with them when he could have just changed stand locations but that is Dads way.In any case I learned from him that driving is dangerous,annoying and just plain assingn and have never found anything to contradict that yet.I worked with a person at my last job who belonged to a local club abd bragged every year about how drunk they got at the club then hit the woods to drive deer.Thats right,drunken gun wielding rednecks.I like rednecks and i like guns but I ain't big on drunks so i guess two out of three ain't bad.
As for deer not being able to see orange,how do you know this?Have you ever been a deer?Perhaps they don't see it as orange as we do but they do take notice of solid colors from what I've noticed wearing different clothing in the woods.
Anyway driving is prefectly legal wether I like it or not so carry on,all I can say is any drivers shoot me I hope for their sakes the kill me.I don't handle pain well and seeing what buckshot can do to an intestinal tract is not in anyones best interest.
Al

 

[PINEY MIKE]

Thanks for giving a different opinion on driving deer. I had no idea there was a season for driving. The reason I don't like it, and I may be wrong, is I was told hunting is a sport. Just doesn't seem very sporting. Sort of like netting fish. Just my opinion...for what it's worth.

Some people might consider hunting a sport, but for me (and just like the first hunters) its a means of putting food on the table. Just so happens to be fun too and presents the opportunity to enjoy the outdoors with a dog, family, friends, or on your own. Setting a net for fish takes little time or talent and in most freshwater cases in our area, its illegal. Im not a huge advocate for deer drives, nor have I done a large number of them. The ones I did happen to participate in took time to scout and read tracks, rubs, and beds. Its not worth wasting time where the deer aren't. Thats just part of it. Unlike netting a fish, where as you just leave the net and come back, hunters must also have an oppurtunity to shoot and make an accurate shot. Then you often need to track the blood trail if the deer does not go down immediately. Though you may not think so, there is a good amount of skill and knowledge involved to SUCCESSFULLY drive and kill deer. I am also an advid fly fisherman and rarely even spin fish, so something like netting is out of the question for me. To compare deer drives to netting fish is a pretty moot analogy IMO, but we all are entitled to our opinion.
With all that said, Ive also seen some deer drives done the wrong way. This year we had some groups behind my neighborhood that shot some does during buck week and left almost the entire deers behind, save the back straps they took out. This is a huge waste of life and meat and also considered poaching.. something that angers me greatly.
PS- There is no "deer driving week." Most hunters only drive deer during shotgun week, which lasts just a week in NJ and only antlered bucks may be taken.

 

[PINEY MIKE]

Mike,
I used to hunt with my Dad in my teens and twenties and he was a pot hunter hunting from stands either alone or with me or a friend.He hated drivers because they always drove the deer away from him starting at a field visible from the stand and driving toward him.I never understood why he cussed the drivers every year and almost had shhot outs with them when he could have just changed stand locations but that is Dads way.In any case I learned from him that driving is dangerous,annoying and just plain assingn and have never found anything to contradict that yet.I worked with a person at my last job who belonged to a local club abd bragged every year about how drunk they got at the club then hit the woods to drive deer.Thats right,drunken gun wielding rednecks.I like rednecks and i like guns but I ain't big on drunks so i guess two out of three ain't bad.
As for deer not being able to see orange,how do you know this?Have you ever been a deer?Perhaps they don't see it as orange as we do but they do take notice of solid colors from what I've noticed wearing different clothing in the woods.
Anyway driving is prefectly legal wether I like it or not so carry on,all I can say is any drivers shoot me I hope for their sakes the kill me.I don't handle pain well and seeing what buckshot can do to an intestinal tract is not in anyones best interest.
Al

If your dad hunts from stands, he is most likely a bowhunter, or black powder hunter.. both of which are closed seasons during shotgun week.. why doesnt he just stay home that week if drivers piss him off so much? Driving is not dangerous if done properly (and sober). Im convinced much of your sentiment towards this subject is being passed down from your father and the bad experience you had with those "drunken rednecks.". If I had drivers pass my deer stand, Id get pissed too, but its perfectly legal and about 99% of the time they do not see the person in the stand.
And YES, in fact I was a deer once and could not see blaze orange. Of course I wasnt a deer, but dont you think theres been studies of the reactions of deer to blaze orange? Im no scientists or deer psychologist, nor do I pretend to be, but this study has been accepted by most hunters and the reason why blaze has been a norm for such a long time. If you do not believe so, thats perfectly fine. Your final lines tell me you really have it stuck in your head that drives and their participants are dangerous and bad, which is far from the truth. Every form of hunting can be dangerous if not done with careful awareness and precision. As I said, Ive only done a handful of drives, but see nothing wrong with them at all. Its very unlikely to happen, but I still hope no one shoots you.
Mike

 

[swwit]

What bothers me a bit is the fact that we need to hunt the white tails because of a lack of natural predation. Well, we lack natural predation because we've already blown holes in all the critters that might actually hunt a white tail. In northern NJ they're holding the black bear hunts yearly again, and yet if I remember correctly they are no more than 4-5 years removed from the endangered species list. Or were they just threatened?

Either way! Seems strange!

I think the day glow orange is supposedly not visible to deer.

Ok. The black bear population is more than stable and "they" have no natural predators so the hunts must take place. Also, black bear rarely capture and kill deer. They are omnivores but most of the deer they get to eat are road kills. Not a single predator that was once present in N.J. is gone because of hunting. Habitat loss would be the cause. The majority of predators that prey on deer are coyote and bobcats.

 

[swwit]

Thanks for giving a different opinion on driving deer. I had no idea there was a season for driving. The reason I don't like it, and I may be wrong, is I was told hunting is a sport. Just doesn't seem very sporting. Sort of like netting fish. Just my opinion...for what it's worth.

I like your fishing analogy. But baiting a hook is like baiting deer and netting fish is like hunting deer without baiting. lol

 

[cranbrake]

........ Habitat loss would be the cause..

Yeah and I'll add to that,more specifically perhaps- habitat degradation.Too much of the general public seem have the misconception that all 'greenspace' is one and the same.

 

[manumuskin]

If your dad hunts from stands, he is most likely a bowhunter, or black powder hunter.. both of which are closed seasons during shotgun week.. why doesnt he just stay home that week if drivers piss him off so much? Driving is not dangerous if done properly (and sober). Im convinced much of your sentiment towards this subject is being passed down from your father and the bad experience you had with those "drunken rednecks.". If I had drivers pass my deer stand, Id get pissed too, but its perfectly legal and about 99% of the time they do not see the person in the stand.
And YES, in fact I was a deer once and could not see blaze orange. Of course I wasnt a deer, but dont you think theres been studies of the reactions of deer to blaze orange? Im no scientists or deer psychologist, nor do I pretend to be, but this study has been accepted by most hunters and the reason why blaze has been a norm for such a long time. If you do not believe so, thats perfectly fine. Your final lines tell me you really have it stuck in your head that drives and their participants are dangerous and bad, which is far from the truth. Every form of hunting can be dangerous if not done with careful awareness and precision. As I said, Ive only done a handful of drives, but see nothing wrong with them at all. Its very unlikely to happen, but I still hope no one shoots you.
Mike

Yes Dad hunts black powder and bow now but back then a specifically at the time mentioned he was hunting shotgun during firearms week and thats all he hunted back then.
I was never aware that drives actually scouted deer sign in the areas they drove before they drove them and quite frankly don't believe it.The purpose of a drive is not to track deer then set up an ambush which would actually take skill.even baiting while kind oi cheating still takes skill to ambush the deer since while driven toward the food are still wary but a drive has nothing to do with tracking or ambush it is all about pinning whatever deer happen to be there between two opposing lines and hemming then in till they panic and flee and then shooting them hopefully while not shooting someone in the opposing line.Effective but far from sporting.I call it hunting for people that don't know how to.
And as I said deer may not be able to see orange but they DO see the brightness and blockiness of an unbroken pattern.I have had them stare at me with the wind blowing from them to me and id didn't make a sound.they will snort and paw but eventually calm down if I don't move but when wearing camo or checkered flannels as long as they don't smell or hear me they usually don't even notice me so birght solid colors do attract their notice.
Al

 

[PINEY MIKE]

I was never aware that drives actually scouted deer sign in the areas they drove before they drove them and quite frankly don't believe it.
Thats fine if you dont believe it, but why would someone hunt a track of land with no signs of active deer during a season that only lasts week? Waste of time if you're there to hunt.
The purpose of a drive is not to track deer then set up an ambush which would actually take skill.
How would you know if you've never done one? There is more than one way to drive deer and I guess you think the only way is the one you know of (not sure where you even learned this from?). The way I've done it is to scout areas to find active bucks prior to the hunt, which IMO takes at least some tracking skills to find and read rubs and beds.
but a drive has nothing to do with tracking
Again, you are making an assumption on something you seem to know little about, especially since you've never been involved in a drive with a knowledgeable hunting party.
Effective but far from sporting.
blah blah. Its called hunting, not sporting, though some may consider it so.
I call it hunting for people that don't know how to.
Thank you, I call it hunting with a party of knowledgeable friends to put food on the table and help keep healthy populations in the pines. Most people I've done drives with are also active bow and muzzleloader hunters, probably twice your age, and very avid and caring when it comes to hunting and wildlife management. You obviously know little about hunting, but its nice of you to feel obliged to make assumptions about me and a subject you don't know anything about. But hey, you're entitled to an opinion
And as I said deer may not be able to see orange but they DO see the brightness and blockiness of an unbroken pattern.
Can you point out where you said this, I recall you saying orange and camo contradict each other. Again, a matter you knew nothing about until I informed you. Sorry if Im coming across as rude and irritated, but I feel it necessary to defend myself from people who have big opinions and small understandings on subjects such as this. I also feel I should mention once more that although I've only done a couple of drives, I see nothing wrong with them in any way. To each his own. Have a good one.
Mike

.

 

[skip3]

Dang ya'll it ain't that complicated if you put meat in the freezer it was a good hunt

 

[46er]

 

[manumuskin]

.

how do you track when the blood trail is gone?Thats all I hear,the blood trail blah blah blah.Do you know anything of track patterns,stride distance,pressure releases,aging tracks,broken vegetation,any of this.I've know one,maybe two hunters in my life that were competent trackers,I'd bet once the deer steps off a sand road your hunting club would be hard pressed to produce a tracker that could track it provided it wasn't bleeding profusely.I can follow people pretty well through thick brush but deer only very slowly and belly down unless they are crashing through the brush.I want to see these apache trackers of yours do their stuff.Any buddy can recognize sign like rubs,scrapes,lays and beds,chewed vegetation and such.You claim to scout to find where the deer are.Do you know any patch of woods in NJ not surrounded totally by developement where deer aren't?If youyr trackers were all that they would be able to know where an individual deer is and when because they are very much creatures of habit that only change their routes with the seasons but pretty much keep to the same area all year long.He wouldn't need to pin the deer between two opposing lines and squeeze them out.Thats not a tactic needed by an organization of expert hunters,thats used by people who net fish not by people who know where the bass is and drop their lure in the exact spot.driving is effective but comparing a drive to hunting is like me putting on a dress and saying I'm a girl.I've never done that...Really!
Hey it's legal so do it if thats your thing but don't feed me a line about what great trackers and hunters you all are.I can track better then most and I know all my critter sign.If I ever decide to get back into hunting I don't need forty other guys to help me bring down a deer and neither should you.
Al

 

[PINEY MIKE]

how do you track when the blood trail is gone?Thats all I hear,the blood trail blah blah blah.Do you know anything of track patterns,stride distance,pressure releases,aging tracks,broken vegetation,any of this.I've know one,maybe two hunters in my life that were competent trackers,I'd bet once the deer steps off a sand road your hunting club would be hard pressed to produce a tracker that could track it provided it wasn't bleeding profusely.I can follow people pretty well through thick brush but deer only very slowly and belly down unless they are crashing through the brush.I want to see these apache trackers of yours do their stuff.Any buddy can recognize sign like rubs,scrapes,lays and beds,chewed vegetation and such.You claim to scout to find where the deer are.Do you know any patch of woods in NJ not surrounded totally by developement where deer aren't?If youyr trackers were all that they would be able to know where an individual deer is and when because they are very much creatures of habit that only change their routes with the seasons but pretty much keep to the same area all year long.He wouldn't need to pin the deer between two opposing lines and squeeze them out.Thats not a tactic needed by an organization of expert hunters,thats used by people who net fish not by people who know where the bass is and drop their lure in the exact spot.driving is effective but comparing a drive to hunting is like me putting on a dress and saying I'm a girl.I've never done that...Really!
Hey it's legal so do it if thats your thing but don't feed me a line about what great trackers and hunters you all are.I can track better then most and I know all my critter sign.If I ever decide to get back into hunting I don't need forty other guys to help me bring down a deer and neither should you.
Al

You're rediculous and quite frankly acting like a child. Im not in a gun club, not an apache, and never said anything about being a great tracker. I said it takes at least "some skill" to hunt drives the way I have done them. Were you on one of those hunts with me, am I missing something? Again, only did this a couple times with about 7 or 8 people, people that have spent a lifetime living in the pines off the land and know a hell of a lot more about hunting ethics than you claim to. There is nothing unethical about a PROPERLY done deer drive. Your assumptions of me show your true ignorance. Id love to see whats in your freezer and how ethical the killing, packaging, and rest of the processing of the food was.
As for fishing, while you're dropping trebble hook lures like you mentioned (which I have no problem with), Im tying my own flies and fly fishing with debarbed hooks if practicing catch and release (which is how I usually fish unless going for dinner). Just like I feel bow is the most primitive way to hunt, I feel fly fishing is the most primitive way to fish. However, I know there are other ways to hunt and fish and if its ethical, Im up for the challenge of learning new strategies. Im not going to pass judgement about those ways without learning about them first like you've done over and over on this thread. You come across as a fool. See you on another thread or in the organic section of shoprite since you're such a wonderful humanitarian.. you can put your dress you mentioned back on now, ya Sheila.

 

[manumuskin]

I have five deer hides in my freezer,three have been fleshed,two are raw,their waiting for spring when I'm going to brain tan them.Is this something you know how to do? I wager not,don't even know how to skin em right without ruining them no doubt.Also a fistful of leg sinew in the closet for sewing the holes up.
Yes I'd say bow hunting is the most primitive,especially if you make your own longbow and arrows with stone points which is of course illegal in our wonderful state.I'd say spear fishing is more primitive then fly fishing which i have done,also illegal in this state and hard to do in our dark waters.
Also you mispelled ridiculous ,I guess you spell like a child,I hope it was just a typo but e and i are nowhere close to each other on my keyboard.
Sheila

 

[PINEY MIKE]

I have five deer hides in my freezer,three have been fleshed,two are raw,their waiting for spring when I'm going to brain tan them.Is this something you know how to do? I wager not,don't even know how to skin em right without ruining them no doubt.Also a fistful of leg sinew in the closet for sewing the holes up.
Yes I'd say bow hunting is the most primitive,especially if you make your own longbow and arrows with stone points which is of course illegal in our wonderful state.I'd say spear fishing is more primitive then fly fishing which i have done,also illegal in this state and hard to do in our dark waters.
Also you mispelled ridiculous ,I guess you spell like a child,I hope it was just a typo but e and i are nowhere close to each other on my keyboard.
Sheila

Dont wager too high friend.. I know how to skin and brain tan, comes out much softer. My neighbors really good with that stuff and better than me. You think pretty high of yourself and little of me for someone who's never spent a minute with me. You are not the only person who knows how to do this stuff. Im no expert, but you are not wonderwomen. You are Sheila, and you mispelled "their in my freezer." Should be "they're." You know, since now you're talking grammer. Hopefully we can see eye to eye on other threads. See you in the woods Sheila.

 

[manumuskin]

Dont wager too high friend.. I know how to skin and brain tan, comes out much softer. My neighbors really good with that stuff and better than me. You think pretty high of yourself and little of me for someone who's never spent a minute with me. You are not the only person who knows how to do this stuff. Im no expert, but you are not wonderwomen. You are Sheila, and you mispelled "their in my freezer." Should be "they're." You know, since now you're talking grammer. Take care.

Ahh! you found my weakness,grammar I am a most wonderfull speller but grammar and punctuation are my downfalls.
yes you are right much softer and a lot of ass bustin work to boot but not too complicated once you get the hang of it.
Gonna make a full buckskin outfit for myself,was thinking of trapper style with breeches,complete with fringe but hell now i may make myself a buckskin skirt,why not,making braintan used to be considered womans work anyway.
Take care,Piney Mike.
Proud to be a piney
from my nose down to my hiney!
Sheila