Let's Talk about the PPA

Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
I have a lot to say on this topic, but no energy right now. I agree that things sure are better in many ways in many places in New Jersey than they were 40 or 50 years ago. But not entirely so and we can do better.
Love this site. Great diversity of opinions. Tons of knowledge.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
13,102
3,325
Pines; Bamber area
And 43 years from now Quarter Mile will be just a name on a map and the environmentalist will be harping about someplace else as they always do.

Certainly does not make the actions they do okay Guy. And, if you don't stop it now, it will get worse and worse. The jeep clubs will get larger, the tires will get larger, and the playground will expand exponentially.

PS: I am an environmentalist at heart. If we don't play our harp once in awhile, the forest will go to hell in a hand-basket.
 
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Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,552
1,616
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
Certainly does not make the actions they do okay Guy. And, if you don't stop it now, it will get worse and worse. The jeep clubs will get larger, the tires will get larger, and the playground will expand exponentially.

There won't be any pines left because the developers will win long before a Jeep's tire drives over the last bog asphodel. The pipelines are just the start. The Pinelands commission, the same people who once made the owner of the restaurant at the Forks take down his portable canopies due to run-off, are green lighting pipelines that travel through wetlands areas.
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,288
744
Atco, NJ
But the law-breaking must be stopped: the question, as always, is how?
In the perfect scenario, everyone would understand that this a very precious but fragile and vulnerable place and would tread lightly. We can try to educate, but we all know this can only do so much.

Assuming that more patrols and enforcement of current rules is probably the answer, how are we going to pay for it? I personally am more than happy for my tax dollars to go for this. But it's just not that simple of course. I can't direct my tax dollars to my preferred causes.

I've never been in favor of any kind of vigilante action or justice...it's crazy and dangerous. WHAT can we do?
Maggie, I wish I had a simple answer. If I did we wouldn't even be talking about it now. Individually we could only teach people we know directly as to what is appropriate behavior in the pines. Together as a group we could accomplish much more with our numbers.
As Mike said there is no single group that can solve the problem. That includes Rob and the PPA (even though that's what they're selling).
I agree with Teegate. These pines have been raped far worse then any ORV abuse over the centuries. Everyone here is basing their opinion of healthy pines on their own memories. In reality every inch has been clear cut at one point.
I would be shocked if Joseph Wharton couldn't see his orchards in Washington from his mansion.
 

Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
It's not "either/or"' it's "neither".
Prevention of the abuse of the pines (and lots of other places in this little state) is paramount, whether by inappropriate vehicles or pipelines.
The key is to ascertain what is true abuse. And that is what people will never really be able to agree about. Probably. Maybe.
 

Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
Maggie, I wish I had a simple answer. If I did we wouldn't even be talking about it now. Individually we could only teach people we know directly as to what is appropriate behavior in the pines. Together as a group we could accomplish much more with our numbers.
As Mike said there is no single group that can solve the problem. That includes Rob and the PPA (even though that's what they're selling).
I agree with Teegate. These pines have been raped far worse then any ORV abuse over the centuries. Everyone here is basing their opinion of healthy pines on their own memories. In reality every inch has been clear cut at one point.
I would be shocked if Joseph Wharton couldn't see his orchards in Washington from his mansion.

I agree with all of you! Every single opinion expressed here is valid. Every one.
So where do we go from here?
I'm so glad I'm not an elected official.

Speaking of Joseph Wharton...and his water scheme for Philadelphia that was thwarted by NJ...have you all heard about the Saudi haying adventures in Arizona?
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,288
744
Atco, NJ
I agree with all of you! Every single opinion expressed here is valid. Every one.
So where do we go from here?
I'm so glad I'm not an elected official.

Speaking of Joseph Wharton...and his water scheme for Philadelphia that was thwarted by NJ...have you all heard about the Saudi haying adventures in Arizona?
Unfortunately until the PPA and Rob open up any dialogue we are at odds apparently.
All the while there's a pipeline threatening the total existence of the pines and the people that love them the most are divided with one side not willing to work together.
I agree with you, I'm glad I'm not an elected official too. To keep my position I would only have to please 51% of the public. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night doing that poorly.

PS when my wife worked for American Water, it was owned by a Brittish firm which was bought out by a German Company. Makes you wonder when another country controls your water supply.;)
 
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Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
Unfortunately until the PPA and Rob open up any dialogue we are at odds apparently.
All the while there's a pipeline threatening the total existence of the pines and the people that love them the most are divided with one side not willing to work together.
I agree with you, I'm glad I'm not an elected official too. To keep my position I would only have to please 51% of the public. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night doing that poorly.

PS when my wife worked for American Water, it was owned by a Brittish firm which was bought out by a German Company. Makes you wonder when another country controls your water supply.;)
Water is more important than oil.
 
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Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,552
1,616
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
I've been given the results of an OPRA request done for communications between the Wharton Superintendent and various PPA members done by Jack McGinnis, owner of Nixon's in Tabernacle. This email exchange, talking about NJPineBarrens.com and Pinelands Adventures is pretty interesting. It also contains this gem from Jaclyn Rhoads, the 2nd in charge of the PPA, speaking about the MAP.

"There may be an initial backlash, but then people will forget."

I don't really feel that people will be forgetting this one, as much as I am sure that the PPA would like them to.

Read from the bottom up.

102.png
 
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46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,128
Coastal NJ
I've been given the results of an OPRA request done for communications between the Wharton Superintendent and various PPA members done by Jack McGinnis, owner of Nixon's in Tabernacle. This email exchange, talking about NJPineBarrens.com and Pinelands Adventures is pretty interesting. It also contains this gem from Jaclyn Rhoads, the 2nd in charge of the PPA, speaking about the MAP.

"There may be an initial backlash, but then people will forget."

I don't really feel that people will be forgetting this one, as much as I am sure that the PPA would like them to.

Ya gotta love the hutzpah, but not the person behind it.

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." - John F. Kennedy
 
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Pinesbucks

Explorer
Apr 15, 2013
282
100
That is a great picture. I just wish it said that the establishment next door supports limiting access to roads and enjoyment of the pines.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
24,679
6,982
That is a great picture. I just wish it said that the establishment next door supports limiting access to roads and enjoyment of the pines.

Yea, but it says enough to get the point across :)
 
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