Martha Road

[MarkBNJ]

Just thought you guys would like to know that Martha Road north from the turnoff to the pumping station all the way to Andrews Rd. has been widened recently. I was up there a couple of months ago and it was very overgrown, and much pinstriping resulted. Going through today I barely scraped a twig. The road looks like a battleground, with chopped vegetation and branches scattered around: it wasn't a careful job, but it's wider. Nice drive. Some puddles of maybe a foot after the rains today, and some loose sand, but very passable.

On a side note, once you get to Andrews Rd. you can't do anything but turn around and go back south. To the east is the gate at the boundary of the bombing range, and to the west is a gate across where Andrews passes by Oswego Lake (we checked that stretch out from the other side earlier in the day). I can understand the barriers at the range boundary, obviously, but why is Andrews blocked going past the lake?

 

[Teegate]

The alteration to the road was mentioned by Barry on his site last month.

As for the gate, we have discussed that before here. As far as I am concerned, that road has been around for more than a hundred years, and is public access. But apparently either Haines owns it and has the right to block it off, or the state and maybe the Feds are allowing him to as to keep traffic away from the Bombing range.

Back in the 70's I could drive from Oswego lake to Martha, but times have changed. We will learn the answer one day.


Guy

 

[bobpbx]

I can understand the barriers at the range boundary, obviously, but why is Andrews blocked going past the lake?

Very good question. I wonder if its because they wanted to, and they knew no one would complain about it. Imagine if they did that more.

 

[watchingtrainsgoby]

^ I think if they did that more people would complain...

 

[MarkBNJ]

Thanks for the background, Guy. I forgot to mention, and maybe it has already been reported: the eastern gate was knocked over, obviously having been hit hard by something, and then dragged to one side. The western gate was intact. The approaches are well-posted, of course, so we didn't go in. But perhaps someone else shares the sense that Andrews Rd. should be a public through route.

 

[uh60chick]

The state vacated that stretch of Andrews Road sometime in the late 1980s. It is now private property.

 

[Teegate]

The state vacated that stretch of Andrews Road sometime in the late 1980s. It is now private property.

Thanks.

The state routinely swaps property with towns so that they can built sports complexes and such, but I would guess that they gave Andrews road up for some other reason. Maybe the Feds or the local property owner(s) asked them to.

Here is an example near Green Bank.

Guy

 

[uh60chick]

From what I understand, there were a lot of issues with trespassing. I seem to recall a lawsuit involving someone who ignored the "No Diving" signs on the spillway and broke his neck (I was pretty young at the time). That may have been the incident that precipitated the change in public access.

I don't know how common it is, but I know of one other incident in recent history where the state asked a private landowner to gate a portion of road for safety reasons. Phoenix was asked to secure the gate on Sim Place Road in Warren Grove--I'm pretty sure that was because of the partying going on at their lake(?) which included plenty of racing and literally tearing up the road.

 

[MarkBNJ]

I don't know how common it is, but I know of one other incident in recent history where the state asked a private landowner to gate a portion of road for safety reasons. Phoenix was asked to secure the gate on Sim Place Road in Warren Grove--I'm pretty sure that was because of the partying going on at their lake(?) which included plenty of racing and literally tearing up the road.

Those sound like different cases, though. In your first post you mentioned that the state "vacated" the road and it was now private property, meaning a deed had changed hands, I guess, since that's how private property becomes private, or perhaps an easement restriction on a deed was removed? How does the state vacate a stretch of road?

 

[uh60chick]

I'm pretty sure a petition for road vacation or abandonment can be initiated by either the owning public entity or an adjacent landowner. I don't know the details on Andrews Road. I'm sure the township didn't mind--wouldn't that mean more land on the tax rolls?

You're right, as far as I know, that section of Sim Place Road hasn't been formally vacated. I guess I should have left out the "other" and just said I know of one incident.

 

[MarkBNJ]

Thanks for following up. I was just curious from the standpoint of formal land ownership. For example, in my neighborhood we own our plots, and our plots include the sidewalks, which we have a maintenance covenant on. The land that the road occupies is not deeded to anyone who owns a home here, so I assume the county or the township owns the deed on that space. If they decided to no longer have a public street there, that land wouldn't automatically become part of the adjacent plots, would it? Wouldn't it have to be deeded over?

 

[Boyd]

This is an interesting topic for me... My property is bordered by two "paper streets" and the survey indicates my boundaries run down the center of these 50' wide roads (there is no evidence that a real road was ever there, it's just woods). The survey indicates that one of these has been "vacated", but I talked to the people at the town hall, looked at the maps and could find no indication that this road was ever officially vacated. I didn't pursue since it doesn't really matter; I'm sure neither of those roads will actually be built for a variety of reasons.

I don't really understand the legal issues (and my lawyer didn't think it was important), but just looking at my deed and survey it shows my property line running down the middle of these roads, eg: "along the centerline of Beech Avenue". So I'm not sure that any deeds would be involved. But maybe someone else can explain how all this works?

 

[MarkBNJ]

Interesting, Boyd. I happen to live on a court, and my survey shows my property line is the outside curve of the curb around the court. This neighborhood was layed out with streets and plots. It may be that your plot was layed out before that street was planned. Is there any easement on your deed involving the part of the street you own? IANAL but I would say that if there is no easement, then there is no right to permit a street or anything else to be built on that piece. The town would have to exercise emminent domain, I think.

It's too bad about that gate, and I think I will follow up with the township there to see what the deal is. I haven't found any other place to cross in a vehicle without going west to 563 on Jenkins Rd., or east to 539.

 

[RednekF350]

This is an interesting topic for me... My property is bordered by two "paper streets" and the survey indicates my boundaries run down the center of these 50' wide roads (there is no evidence that a real road was ever there, it's just woods). The survey indicates that one of these has been "vacated", but I talked to the people at the town hall, looked at the maps and could find no indication that this road was ever officially vacated. I didn't pursue since it doesn't really matter; I'm sure neither of those roads will actually be built for a variety of reasons.

I don't really understand the legal issues (and my lawyer didn't think it was important), but just looking at my deed and survey it shows my property line running down the middle of these roads, eg: "along the centerline of Beech Avenue". So I'm not sure that any deeds would be involved. But maybe someone else can explain how all this works?

Boyd
I am a licensed surveyor and work with road vacations regularly. Once vacated, the owners on either side gain the land to the centerline of the former road.
When a municipality decides to vacate a right of way it must be done by ordinance.
That requires two public readings and a hearing that no one ever attends.
The ordinace must then be recorded with the register of deeds in your particular county.
There is a road vacation index in each county.
Unfortunately a few of the steps are missed and somtimes the vacations are never fully perfected.
Usually a town directs their engineer to revise the tax maps as soon as a vacation is adopted by ordinance.
I just recently encountered one that never made it to the register of deeds but had gone through alll of the local steps.
The town's solicitor recommended a complete "do-over" to correct the problem.
Scott

 

[Boyd]

Thanks Scott! I had a feeling you would chime in and sort all this out for us

 

[MarkBNJ]

Indeed, thanks for clearing that up. So if that stretch of Andrews was legally vacated it would become the property of the adjacent landowners. Question now is whether it was actually vacated.

 

[Teegate]

Indeed, thanks for clearing that up. So if that stretch of Andrews was legally vacated it would become the property of the adjacent landowners. Question now is whether it was actually vacated.

Well, the state surely would not allow him to gate it if they owned it. Maybe they would have gated it, but letting him do it I doubt.

Guy

 

[MarkBNJ]

Well, the state surely would not allow him to gate it if they owned it. Maybe they would have gated it, but letting him do it I doubt.

Guy

You would think not. Is there any other place to cross that river other than 563 and 539?

 

[Teegate]

You would think not. Is there any other place to cross that river other than 563 and 539?

You can swim it anyplace

I would have to say Sim Place, but that is offlimits, so you may be out of luck.


Guy

 

[uh60chick]

Turns out that section of Andrews Road belonged to Washington Township, which vacated the road in 1989 under Ordinance 1989-2.

The copy of the ordinance did not scan well. It reads:

ORDINANCE 1989-2
AN ORDINANCE OF THE TOWNSHIP OF WASHINGTON TO VACATE A CERTAIN PART OF A CERTAIN STREET AND RIGHT-OF-WAY KNOWN AS ANDREWS ROAD

BE IT ORDAINED by the Township Committee of the Township of Washington, County of Burlington, and State of New Jersey, as follows:

Section 1. DECLARATIONS
The Township Committee hereby makes the following declarations:
(a) N.J.S.A. 40:67-1(b) states that the governing body of every municipality may make Ordinances to vacate any public street or any part thereof.
(b) The Township Committee hereby determines and recites that a certain part of a certain public street, road, highway or alley known as Andrews Road, said part being more particularly described in Schedules "A" attached and made a part of this Ordinance, is no longer needed for the purpose of a street, road, highway or alley and that the best interests of the public will be served by vacating and releasing the public rights therein arising from the dedication thereof or the acceptance of public use thereof.

Section 2. VACATION
The Township Committee hereby surrenders, extinguishes, and vacates the public rights and interests existing by reason of any dedication, acceptance, public use or otherwise in, along, upon and over the portions of a public street and right-of-way set forth and described in Schedule "A" attached hereto and made a part hereof.

Section 3. RESERVATION
Pursuant to N.J.S. 40:67-1(b), the Township Committee of Washington Township expressly reserves from its surrender, extinguishment, and vacation of Andrews Road pursuant to this Ordinance, all rights which may be possessed in said road by any public utility, as defined in N.J.S. 48:2-13 to maintain, repair, and replace their existing facilities in, adjacent to, over, or under the road to be vacated.

PREPARED BY: Peter H. Nelson (signed)