NJ bans bear hunting on state land
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
It is reassuring to see that some people are trying their best to utilize the science of biology in the management of our natural resources. The new idea that science is useless which is cradled by Bush administration means the end of our environmental judgement. In my opinion, the hunters really showed their bloodlust and lack of concern for the bears. It would have been nice to see hunters stepping back and looking to the biologists for the right decision without being so crazy to kill. Bear hunting was outlawed for numerous years due to the lack of respect and aggressiveness towards these passive animals. I am digusted that people in today's world of easy food availability are still so turned on by the extinction of life. The only reason I like hunting is it's history of land preservation. It is also a more humane way to kill animals in comparison to the torture of livestock farming utilized nowadays. Although I think killing of an animal is OK for the purposes of food and I know that people eat the meat, it is painfully obvious that this is NOT why people hunt nowadays and I am dumbfounded by the desire to hunt down animals who are already highly stressed by human interaction. Right, they'll starve if we don't kill them and we're thinning out the herd. Blah,blah, blah. Some hunters killed the very last existing bear in France this month. The bear was known, had a name, and the hunters claimed that they killed it in "self defense"...bullshit. As I walk around this time of year, I hear the hunters blowing the hell out of everything in sight. In my opinion, not the best type of people in the woods, not a sport of the evolved sportsman. I see guys on TV blowing away animals at very long distances with high-power rifles who actually think they did something cool!
I fish and I have the ability to let the animal go in almost all cases. I go to lengths to release all my prey because I have respect for them. I would not see the point in sitting in a tree and shooting at fish as they swim by. If I was hungry it would be rational, but for fun...it is an act of ignorance. Hunting is no longer beautiful like the way it was with the Native Americans, especially when people are just bursting at the seams in their desire to kill creatures who's numbers are in question. In short, this craziness to kill bears has finally turned me off from hunting. I think all the people who have bear blood on the brain should have their licenses taken away. There is obviously a lack of respect for the bears by the hunters or they would have no problem leaving them alone for a year or even forever. I think all the dissapointed hunters should get cameras and learn to film the bears in their natural ways. Now THAT would be a much more admirable achievement.
I fish and I have the ability to let the animal go in almost all cases. I go to lengths to release all my prey because I have respect for them. I would not see the point in sitting in a tree and shooting at fish as they swim by. If I was hungry it would be rational, but for fun...it is an act of ignorance. Hunting is no longer beautiful like the way it was with the Native Americans, especially when people are just bursting at the seams in their desire to kill creatures who's numbers are in question. In short, this craziness to kill bears has finally turned me off from hunting. I think all the people who have bear blood on the brain should have their licenses taken away. There is obviously a lack of respect for the bears by the hunters or they would have no problem leaving them alone for a year or even forever. I think all the dissapointed hunters should get cameras and learn to film the bears in their natural ways. Now THAT would be a much more admirable achievement.
Here's more if anyone is interested. And notice it mentions an online petition you can fill out if you oppose the hunt.
http://www.app.com/app/story/0,21625,1123369,00.html
Guy
http://www.app.com/app/story/0,21625,1123369,00.html
Guy
Jokerman,
That was a great post. Even if hunters disagree with you passionately, no one can refute some of the points you've made. Well thought out, well arranged, and to the point. Not afraid to speak your mind, are you? Good for you.
bob
That was a great post. Even if hunters disagree with you passionately, no one can refute some of the points you've made. Well thought out, well arranged, and to the point. Not afraid to speak your mind, are you? Good for you.
bob
jokerman said:
I also fish and it bothers the hell out of me to catch and release. I only release because of size restrictions and unfortunately you can't see the size of the fish before it is hooked.
I don't hunt but have no problem with hunting. Perhaps the state should allow the hunter to just wound thier prey. It would be the same as catch and release.
Steve
[highlight]I don't really think they sould do that but you get my point.[/highlight]
BEHR655 said:
I have to admit, I have tortured quite a few pickeral in my time pulling out barbed hooks. I've even had the gills come out the mouth all ripped up. I know I probably killed many doing that. I am more careful now. I wonder if they feel pain?
I am relieved and uplifted to hear some agreement on this situation. I totally expected the usual assault I get when I oppose Bush and these types of topics. Yes, I think it would be better if hunters could temporarily trap their prey and observe them for a brief period and then set them free. I don't think fishing is without its cruelty, but the prey are less emotionally developed than the bear and the decision of release exists. Using certain lures (spinnerbaits, other large fat moving lures with single hooks) I have had nearly 100 percent luck with lip-hooked fish and almost injury-free release.
The fish certainly do feel pain since they have a central nervous system as all vertebrates do. I think it was smart to say "it's easier to believe they don't (feel pain)". Response to pain is a necessary biological survival technique devised by nature. Most animals will not show pain since it can lead to attack by another animal who prey on the weakened. It's all very interesting.
The fish certainly do feel pain since they have a central nervous system as all vertebrates do. I think it was smart to say "it's easier to believe they don't (feel pain)". Response to pain is a necessary biological survival technique devised by nature. Most animals will not show pain since it can lead to attack by another animal who prey on the weakened. It's all very interesting.
The new idea that science is useless which is cradled by Bush administration means the end of our environmental judgment. ?????
Yeah I blame Bush also. He is the worst. He even believes stopping the killing of babies and protecting human dignity are more important than science.
Next thing you know he will convince all of us fools that a Bear hunt to reduce the Bear population is better than using tax money to shoot Bears up with birth control.
I would like to know who decided to plant the hundreds of acres of corn on Government property in the Water GAP area that the Bears feed on. What would happen if that were suddenly stopped. My guess is hundreds of starving Bears.
What kind of science calls for providing food to support a Bear population larger than what you want so that you then propose shooting the bears up with birth control to bring the population down.
Yeah I blame Bush also. He is the worst. He even believes stopping the killing of babies and protecting human dignity are more important than science.
Next thing you know he will convince all of us fools that a Bear hunt to reduce the Bear population is better than using tax money to shoot Bears up with birth control.
I would like to know who decided to plant the hundreds of acres of corn on Government property in the Water GAP area that the Bears feed on. What would happen if that were suddenly stopped. My guess is hundreds of starving Bears.
What kind of science calls for providing food to support a Bear population larger than what you want so that you then propose shooting the bears up with birth control to bring the population down.
Interesting points and thoughts. The decison to ban bear hunting on state owned land should be a major advantage to the growth of bear populations here in the pine barrens. It is feasible that the emerging south jersey bear population could be wiped out by such a hunt. However, I do wonder about the north jersey populations that seem to be out of control (last I heard). Did last years hunt diminish the northern populations? Most of north Jersey is privately owned, so I guess the hunting will still be worth while up that way (for hunters).
I believe hunting in general is okay and it is important to remember that not all hunters are as blood thirsty and kill happy as some of the behavior of certain hunters would have us believe. The large wildlife management areas we are fortunite to have, exist because of this sport/tradition. I am not a hunter myself.
Most hunters I know eat their kill or at least give the meat to someone who does. Do people commonly eat black bear? If not I would have somewhat of a hard time condoning bear hunting at all, but hey that's just me.
I am an avid fisherman. The fish feel pain, but I suspect that pain is less than what you might expect. Refering to pickeral, there are fewer nerves endings within their mouths than that of your typical mammal. The gills might be a different story. I frequently caught fish that had no idea they were hooked until I started to bring them in. The single hook is far, far less damaging than the treble hook (multiple hooks), not just for the obvious reason, but for the ease of hook removal. Handling the fish is often more harmful than the hooks. Human hand oil is detremental to the protective slim. cotton gloves will ensure less damage, or better yet, it is possible to remove the hook without touching the fish at all once you get the technique. When releasing, gently pulling them backward by their tail once they are in the water revives a fatiged fish. Also, the fish often injure themselves when thrashing about on land (spine injury). this can be avoided by restricting the fish as soon as possible.
I usually eat the fish I catch, but the mercury consumption advisory warnings have made me cut down on them. I have recaught many of the fish I have released in the past. Just thought I'd share some fish info, wasn't this about bears or something?
Jeff
I believe hunting in general is okay and it is important to remember that not all hunters are as blood thirsty and kill happy as some of the behavior of certain hunters would have us believe. The large wildlife management areas we are fortunite to have, exist because of this sport/tradition. I am not a hunter myself.
Most hunters I know eat their kill or at least give the meat to someone who does. Do people commonly eat black bear? If not I would have somewhat of a hard time condoning bear hunting at all, but hey that's just me.
I am an avid fisherman. The fish feel pain, but I suspect that pain is less than what you might expect. Refering to pickeral, there are fewer nerves endings within their mouths than that of your typical mammal. The gills might be a different story. I frequently caught fish that had no idea they were hooked until I started to bring them in. The single hook is far, far less damaging than the treble hook (multiple hooks), not just for the obvious reason, but for the ease of hook removal. Handling the fish is often more harmful than the hooks. Human hand oil is detremental to the protective slim. cotton gloves will ensure less damage, or better yet, it is possible to remove the hook without touching the fish at all once you get the technique. When releasing, gently pulling them backward by their tail once they are in the water revives a fatiged fish. Also, the fish often injure themselves when thrashing about on land (spine injury). this can be avoided by restricting the fish as soon as possible.
I usually eat the fish I catch, but the mercury consumption advisory warnings have made me cut down on them. I have recaught many of the fish I have released in the past. Just thought I'd share some fish info, wasn't this about bears or something?
Jeff
Aren't bears a non-native species to the Pine Barrens. I certainly don't want them around when I'm exploring.
It is my understanding that both bears and mountain lions were both native to the pine barrens. The mountain lions or cougars were driven out or killed off at some point in the early 1800's and the bears were driven out or killed off sometime around 1900. I could be a little off with this time line because I'm going off of a vague memory of these facts but I'm pretty certain that in relatively recent history bears were indigenious to the area.
As for bear confrontations in the woods. I've noticed several townships and groups in the area are now providing seminars on the bear/human dynamic. You might have noticed the PPA flyer; "meet your new neighbors (black bears)". I havn't attended these seminars but I believe that violent behavior of black bears is very uncommon. I've seen coyote and rattle snakes and they havn't been a problem, I doubt the bear will be problem. If the populations grow, they might become a nuscence like the deer are sometimes (instead of plants and gardens being attacked it would be our garbage, like a big racoon). I know that physical harm from black bears is rare.
Besides, you have to admit, it would be really cool to see a bear walking up the forked river mountains!
Jeff
As for bear confrontations in the woods. I've noticed several townships and groups in the area are now providing seminars on the bear/human dynamic. You might have noticed the PPA flyer; "meet your new neighbors (black bears)". I havn't attended these seminars but I believe that violent behavior of black bears is very uncommon. I've seen coyote and rattle snakes and they havn't been a problem, I doubt the bear will be problem. If the populations grow, they might become a nuscence like the deer are sometimes (instead of plants and gardens being attacked it would be our garbage, like a big racoon). I know that physical harm from black bears is rare.
Besides, you have to admit, it would be really cool to see a bear walking up the forked river mountains!
Jeff
Yes, please...I hope that the reintroduction of bears is met with welcome instead of ignorance (fear and "Jaws" type mentality) They have been present for all of our history and the only stories of attack are due to man-made unnatural (and extremely rare circumstances). I abhor the demonization of sharks, bears, snakes, and alligators. We all were scared about "monsters" as kids but if as adults we are able to look at the statistics of death and danger, we would all go screaming at the sight of our own cars in the morning (you don't feel afraid of them do you) and would seek out the safety of a bear-dominated area or would dive into shark-infested waters since the bears and sharks have been MUCH more kind to us than cars, trains, planes have been. Just think about it..in all the stories you have read about the history of this land...how many stories that talk about bear attacks have been written? Close to none..certainly close to none about black bears. It is time for us to stand up for them, they certainly deserve our approval as good neighbors. Where are all the naturalists? This should be common ground?
I still don't like them in the pine barrens. I forsee too many conflicts. It is quite different now than it was in 1750. People are pressing in from all sides.
By the way, the term "bear harvest" is being used to describe bear hunts. Is that like reaping what you have sown? Or is it more like collecting wild berries?
Duh!
By the way, the term "bear harvest" is being used to describe bear hunts. Is that like reaping what you have sown? Or is it more like collecting wild berries?
Duh!
And, there has been many bear attacks. We just don't see them......
http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/bear_attacks.shtml
http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/bear_attacks.shtml
BobM said:
Don't worry Bob. You will still be safer in the Pines than you would be if your were hiking through Camden.
And I love Jokerman's comment about running from our cars! Far more dangerous than a black bear. It's those tall bald headed bears you need to worry about.
