NJ Not Saving Forests From Vehicle Damage

[Teegate]

Pinelands lovers: N.J. not saving forests from vehicle damage

Parts of numerous state forests contained within the 1.1 million-acre Pinelands district are marred by tire tracks, huge potholes flooded with water and trampled trees and vegetation caused by vehicles venturing off approved paths.

whyy.org

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Pinelands lovers: N.J. not saving forests from vehicle damage

Parts of numerous state forests contained within the 1.1 million-acre Pinelands district are marred by tire tracks, huge potholes flooded with water and trampled trees and vegetation caused by vehicles venturing off approved paths.

whyy.org

Shawn LaTourette, the DEP commissioner, sounds pretty balanced in his assessment of stakeholders.

A pinelands conservationist said "No matter where I have gone, I have been run off the trails by ATVs and motorbikes,” ... “I can’t walk on the Batona Trail and not be run off by motorized vehicles. ...trails I used to hike... have been washed away due to (off-road vehicle) destruction."

Condition of the roads aside, 70% of the time I'm in the woods I don't see anyone. Maybe she is hiking on Quakerbridge Rd by Atsion.

 

[bobpbx]

Shawn LaTourette, the DEP commissioner, sounds pretty balanced in his assessment of stakeholders.

A pinelands conservationist said "No matter where I have gone, I have been run off the trails by ATVs and motorbikes,” ... “I can’t walk on the Batona Trail and not be run off by motorized vehicles. ...trails I used to hike... have been washed away due to (off-road vehicle) destruction."

Condition of the roads aside, 70% of the time I'm in the woods I don't see anyone. Maybe she is hiking on Quakerbridge Rd by Atsion.

Spoken like someone who was asked to provide comment by a Conservation Group.

 

[ninemileskid]

If motorized vehicles were banned from the NJ Turnpike there would be no more speeders or accidents.

 

[NJChileHead]

Shawn LaTourette, the DEP commissioner, said the state is obligated to balance the competing demands of users.

“It’s not as though there’s one group that’s noble and one group that isn’t,” he said. “It’s far too easy to idealize one party and villainize another. It’s not the case that every off-road vehicle user is a bad guy, and not every environmentalist is automatically virtuous.”

Yes! I'm happy to hear that they've taken a balanced view of this. I love the Pine Barrens as much as everyone else on here, but they have to keep working on ideas to deal with this without shutting anyone out completely.

 

[Teegate]

Yes! I'm happy to hear that they've taken a balanced view of this. I love the Pine Barrens as much as everyone else on here, but they have to keep working on ideas to deal with this without shutting anyone out completely.

I don't want to be shut out at all.

 

[NJChileHead]

I don't want to be shut out at all.

I agree completely Teegate, I should have phrased it more accurately to reflect that sentiment.

 

[tsqurd]

The PR machine is at work. Same exact article in todays Press of AC

 

[Teegate]

I know of one person who during the MAP fiasco was telling others, not me, that they were against it. Now I see he is doing everything he can to promote the future move of the DEP. I have no time for people like that.

 

[bobpbx]

Remember that petition that went to the DEP asking for West Mill Road to be reopened? Over 1,000 people signed that petition, and although nothing came of it yet because of the stiff-necked Hammonton Town council, that may be why the DEP is being careful to recognize the needs of both sides. So, it was good to submit it.

 

[tsqurd]

Forgive me if I'm a bit cynical, but “It’s not as though there’s one group that’s noble and one group that isn’t,” he said. “It’s far too easy to idealize one party and villainize another. It’s not the case that every off-road vehicle user is a bad guy, and not every environmentalist is automatically virtuous.” sounds like something one might say after being forced into a mea culpa after their last attempt at their MAP. Hopefully the comment is sincere, but I am skeptical the comment is anything more than lip service.

Some how this article is getting a lot of traction in the local media, it is almost like someone is trying to generate buzz. I feel like I've seen this play before too. The name might be different, but same story line - a person who loves the pines is driven out of the forest by off roaders, speaks for everyone (If I recall, there was even someone that posted on this site the last go around claiming just about that exact story). Same cast of characters being interviewed, making detestable claims. Same undated pictures showing how every square inch of the Pines has been shredded by monster truck tires. And, wasn't there a behind the scenes relationship between the DEP and some from an environmental organization last time?

I notice what is missing from the article is any mention of the work the Open Trails group did, or how successful their efforts were. Come to think of it, I didn't see any quotes from that group either, nor the motorcycle group, nor any hunting groups.

 

[bobpbx]

That's just one source. This one is much better. I think La Tourette is as sincere as you are going to get. The ones to watch out for are the Conservation groups. They don't want to give one inch towards the responsible users.

DEP plans new effort to regulate off-road vehicles in Pinelands

The new commissioner hopes public hearings will resolve a rancorous debate. He promises new regulations and permits, and tougher penalties.

whyy.org

 

[Jon Holcombe]

Forgive me if I'm a bit cynical, but “It’s not as though there’s one group that’s noble and one group that isn’t,” he said. “It’s far too easy to idealize one party and villainize another. It’s not the case that every off-road vehicle user is a bad guy, and not every environmentalist is automatically virtuous.” sounds like something one might say after being forced into a mea culpa after their last attempt at their MAP. Hopefully the comment is sincere, but I am skeptical the comment is anything more than lip service.

Some how this article is getting a lot of traction in the local media, it is almost like someone is trying to generate buzz. I feel like I've seen this play before too. The name might be different, but same story line - a person who loves the pines is driven out of the forest by off roaders, speaks for everyone (If I recall, there was even someone that posted on this site the last go around claiming just about that exact story). Same cast of characters being interviewed, making detestable claims. Same undated pictures showing how every square inch of the Pines has been shredded by monster truck tires. And, wasn't there a behind the scenes relationship between the DEP and some from an environmental organization last time?

I notice what is missing from the article is any mention of the work the Open Trails group did, or how successful their efforts were. Come to think of it, I didn't see any quotes from that group either, nor the motorcycle group, nor any hunting groups.

Yeah. Why should the commissioner of The Department of Environmental Protection try to protect the environment?

It's almost like he's trying to do his job while navigating the political realities of the Jeep Jamboree yahoo's.

You are a one position Johnny, and you rear your head everytime this issue pops up. I wonder what you are doing the rest of the time?

 

[ninemileskid]

That's just one source. This one is much better. I think La Tourette is as sincere as you are going to get. The ones to watch out for are the Conservation groups. They don't want to give one inch towards the responsible users.

DEP plans new effort to regulate off-road vehicles in Pinelands

The new commissioner hopes public hearings will resolve a rancorous debate. He promises new regulations and permits, and tougher penalties.

whyy.org

That article was written in April 2021. Were there hearings held in the summer of 2021?

 

[bobpbx]

That article was written in April 2021. Were there hearings held in the summer of 2021?

I have no idea. I didn't notice the date. But I was posting this in response to tsqurd's last paragraph:

"I notice what is missing from the article is any mention of the work the Open Trails group did, or how successful their efforts were. Come to think of it, I didn't see any quotes from that group either, nor the motorcycle group, nor any hunting groups."

 

[tsqurd]

I spent a few minutes googling yesterday after reading and noting the date on the article Bob posted. I only spent 5 minutes or so looking so could have missed it, but I didn't see anything that indicated there were hearings last summer. Maybe they will have something after the tool they are working on is ready in April?

In any case, makes me wonder if La Tourette did mention some of the successes from a few years ago, but perhaps the journalist decided to omit that fact since is doesnt fit with the narrative of the group that's trying to generate all the buzz.

 

[enormiss]

IMHO: no need to reinvent the wheel. My wife and I visit the George Washington & Jefferson National Forest at least once every two years. Outdoor leisure available for almost everyone.

Spent a week in W&JNF last year and it was nice. Smokies year before.
It's different from here, Why? Didn't notice beer cans or general trash and certainly no mass dump sites.
Came upon a established remote camp site. Nice clean and a pile of stacked firewood left next to stone fireplace that time was taking not vandals.
We drove miles and miles down a dirt road and came to a closed gate, probably been there decades and nobody went around it.
Short back track from gate and turned up a power line access rd. Would have bet a paycheck there would be a trail around up there, nope!
I didn't have or need a map to tell me where I did or didn't belong, just common sense and miles back the way I came in.
We struggle with enforcement of existing policy here but there's more to it.
Overuse? Too large a population and not enough space
Attitude, entitlement, respect, upbringing?
Education, understanding?
Rural life vs. City life?
IDK but want some and a move there is the goal

 

[slingblade]

There was mention in the AP article posted by Teegate about, hikers stabbing a mountain biker over a right-of-way dispute. A quick look through some on-line articles about this incident shows it was less like a dispute and more like an unprovoked attack. With the attacking hiker facing an assault charge and a weapons charge for having an illegal knife.

Biker stabbed, hiker faces serious charges | 790 KGMI

69-year-old Dake Traphagen of Bellingham told deputies the biker attacked him during an argument over right-of-way and he stabbed him in self-defense

kgmi.com

 

[bobpbx]

There was mention in the AP article posted by Teegate about, hikers stabbing a mountain biker over a right-of-way dispute. A quick look through some on-line articles about this incident shows it was less like a dispute and more like an unprovoked attack. With the attacking hiker facing an assault charge and a weapons charge for having an illegal knife.

Biker stabbed, hiker faces serious charges | 790 KGMI

69-year-old Dake Traphagen of Bellingham told deputies the biker attacked him during an argument over right-of-way and he stabbed him in self-defense

kgmi.com

That's a very odd story. After the biker was stabbed, he road home. But who called the cops, and why didn't the biker call them when he got home? I wonder if the other hikers called the cops on the stabber. I'll bet that was a heated discussion.

Edit: more to the story. Madness. I think the hiker had no right to stab the biker.

Hiker to Claim Self Defence After Right of Way Dispute Stabbing - Pinkbike

More details emerge about the Bellingham stabbing.

www.pinkbike.com

 

[slingblade]

That's a very odd story. After the biker was stabbed, he road home. But who called the cops, and why didn't the biker call them when he got home? I wonder if the other hikers called the cops on the stabber. I'll bet that was a heated discussion.

Edit: more to the story. Madness. I think the hiker had no right to stab the biker.

Hiker to Claim Self Defence After Right of Way Dispute Stabbing - Pinkbike

More details emerge about the Bellingham stabbing.

www.pinkbike.com

From your shared articles update... *Records show that Traphagen was charged on March 23 in Whatcom County Superior Court, where further details emerged about the case. As we previously reported, the incident took place on the Stewart Mountain Trail on March 6 and it appears that neither party was willing to yield while passing each other so an argument broke out over who had right of way.

Traphagen claimed that the mountain biker attacked him with his bike after the disagreement and they fell to the ground. During the altercation, he had pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed the mountain biker in self-defense to get him off as he feared for his life. However, the mountain biker claims that his handlebars were grabbed, which caused him to lose balance, so he and the bike tumbled onto the hiker as he was still clipped in. It was at this point he claims he was stabbed multiple times.

Court filings now reveal that a bystander has filmed the incident. The video apparently shows that a woman hiking with Traphagen was grabbing the mountain biker's helmet during the incident and that the hikers were all shouting at the biker to get off Traphagen throughout. After the mountain biker had got up from the altercation, court records state that he was asked what was wrong with him, he said he had been stabbed multiple times and then Traphagen told him, "you are lucky".

The woman filming the incident apparently rang 911 after the mountain biker had asked for someone to do so three times as she was concerned he would pass out on his way down the trail. A witness from neither party who came across the incident apparently wanted to perform first aid on the mountain biker but didn't feel safe due to the aggressive behavior from the hikers, court records report.

The mountain biker received five stab wounds from the incident. He suffered excessive blood loss and a nerve in his arm was severed. He has apparently lost feeling in some of his fingers and has been told the damage could be permanent. We will update this story as more information becomes available.*

In the early days of the Penn Branch Trail, I had a small group of hikers yell at me that bicycles were not allowed on the trail. I didn't stop or slow down to have a *dispute* with them. There was more of them than the singular me.