NJ Not Saving Forests From Vehicle Damage

[bobpbx]

I know hikers pretty well, even though they are not the kind I explore with. The older ones start to become indignant at others who would spoil their time in the woods by minor (environmental) infractions. We had one in our exploring club once (and briefly). He got real upset because someone tossed a banana peel into the woods. I laughed at him, and he got a little angry. The Outdoor Club of South Jersey comes to mind. That had some real sensitive people in there. When I asked them to support us in keeping the roads open, they angrily answered that vehicles should not be in there anyway.

 

[enormiss]

We were further south, this is traveling SE

This is traveling NE, looking SE, from just above previous pic. You can just make out the highway snaking thru in center

Who doesn't like to sample the local offerings

 

[SuperChooch]

Forgive me if I'm a bit cynical, but “It’s not as though there’s one group that’s noble and one group that isn’t,” he said. “It’s far too easy to idealize one party and villainize another. It’s not the case that every off-road vehicle user is a bad guy, and not every environmentalist is automatically virtuous.” sounds like something one might say after being forced into a mea culpa after their last attempt at their MAP. Hopefully the comment is sincere, but I am skeptical the comment is anything more than lip service.

Some how this article is getting a lot of traction in the local media, it is almost like someone is trying to generate buzz. I feel like I've seen this play before too. The name might be different, but same story line - a person who loves the pines is driven out of the forest by off roaders, speaks for everyone (If I recall, there was even someone that posted on this site the last go around claiming just about that exact story). Same cast of characters being interviewed, making detestable claims. Same undated pictures showing how every square inch of the Pines has been shredded by monster truck tires. And, wasn't there a behind the scenes relationship between the DEP and some from an environmental organization last time?

I notice what is missing from the article is any mention of the work the Open Trails group did, or how successful their efforts were. Come to think of it, I didn't see any quotes from that group either, nor the motorcycle group, nor any hunting groups.

RE: Open Trails/enduro group involvement in the article, Tom Hedden, who is quoted in the article, is an officer of the ECEA and is also a member of OTNJ. Tom pushed to allow me to join a call with the author of the article, but unfortunately it was scheduled during the work day and I had an unavoidable commitment. I can certainly take the blame for that, but also the author certainly didn't take any steps to attempt to reach us. @tsqurd - I think you are on to something with the sudden appearance of this article everyone, I doubt it is coincidence.....

In April of last year, OTNJ leadership met with the DEP, mainly just as a "meet and great" and to share perspectives. I would call it a very positive interaction. In that meeting we were assured that they learned lessons from the original MAP disaster and will be engaging the stakeholders in any new action. I haven't heard anything since, I'm going to use the appearance of this article to remind them of that discussion.

 

[Teegate]

I suspect the stakeholders have already met and plans are being made.

 

[slingblade]

I suspect the stakeholders have already met and plans are being made.

Do you care to tell us about a recent stakeholders meeting? I asked around and no one knows of one.

 

[SuperChooch]

Do you care to tell us about a recent stakeholders meeting? I asked around and no one knows of one.

I suspect that Guy was being sarcastic (I.e. we aren't the stakeholders that are being consulted)

 

[Teegate]

SuperChooch is correct. Both of us were at one particular stakeholder meeting during the MAP go around, and everyone in the room was asked if they wanted to look at the MAP they were trying to push on us. Nobody was interested in doing that. It was obvious that every single person there was against it. Not for the fact that we didn't care about the damage that was occurring, just the fact that we all did not want the DEP telling us where we could go and where we couldn't. And for me I still feel that way. The state has been buying land for 100 years and now it is and always will be impossible to protect every piece of it.

 

[tsqurd]

RE: Open Trails/enduro group involvement in the article, Tom Hedden, who is quoted in the article, is an officer of the ECEA and is also a member of OTNJ. Tom pushed to allow me to join a call with the author of the article, but unfortunately it was scheduled during the work day and I had an unavoidable commitment. I can certainly take the blame for that, but also the author certainly didn't take any steps to attempt to reach us.

Interesting. The original article that was forwarded to me through email stopped after stopped after LeTourette's quote -

“It's not as though there's one group that's noble and one group that isn't,” he said. “It's far too easy to idealize one party and villainize another. It's not the case that every off-road vehicle user is a bad guy, and not every environmentalist is automatically virtuous.”

I just dug out the Press article and went back to read the full on WHYY's site and sure enough it continues on and there is the quote from Hedden. Word for word the articles were the same up to that point. Dont know source of the copy/paste email so I can't say for sure the article didn't continue, but clearly the journalist did reach out to the ECEA. My bad.

 

[NJChileHead]

Overuse? Too large a population and not enough space
Attitude, entitlement, respect, upbringing?
Education, understanding?

@enormiss I'd say a combination of the above fosters conflict between users.

Did I ever tell anyone here about being confronted by a birder while we were fishing last year in the Pine Barrens with my two young sons? She started lecturing me about conservation. If any of you have spent any time with me you could probably guess how she must have felt after my retort. SMH.

I think some people get the idea that wherever they step foot, it belongs to them and no one else should be entitled to it. As I've been saying for many years, the difference between personal space and shared space escapes too many people. There are different ways of respecting both, and shared space should be both cared for and willingly shared. How this is so lost on people is confusing. This is why I am frustrated with the attitudes of some of the 'conservationists' I hear about and run into, they embody the "rules for thee but not for me" hypocrisy that inevitably leads to conflict.