ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton

smoke_jumper

smoke_jumper

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Mar 5, 2012
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Greg OBrien said:
The closures continue to spread and have worked into Camden County. This is out by Sandy Causeway.

I spotted about a dozen other signs, but the sheer enthusiam of this closure suggest it was an intensely emotional experience!! LOL

I had to take a picture of this whack-jobs handiwork: Two signs, 20-30 dead falls, and several fresh cut trees dropped... what's back there, hidden treasure?

Almost worth taking a drive back there to see what the big deal is... ;)
Click to expand...

I agree with this closure. There is a devistated vernal pool back there. Just like 1/4 mile it was accessible after a fire line went right to it. It was never meant to be a road
 
Teegate

Teegate

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smoke_jumper said:
You have a good soul, Guy. If I where in your shoes I'm not sure what I would do. I can tell you have personal ties on either side. Both sides have very good people that want the best for the pines. Most of us fall in the middle on this and aren't really that far apart. I agree closures are needed but not as many. A systematic attack seems much more sustainable to me. Just because I'm against the closures doesn't mean I am against the PPA or even Al, for that matter. But their unwillingness to listen forces my hand. A compromise here would benifit everyone.
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I am saying this in a nice way so nobody take it wrong............you have no idea how this situation effects me. I know and am friends with individuals on all sides and friends who are friends with individuals on all sides. It is just is too hard to explain. I do know I now have some enemies if I didn't already before :)
 
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Teegate

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I was daydreaming at work today and realized that this situation is the more recent generations Jet Port that was fought decades ago. You have to admire those individuals who accomplished so much without social media. Landlines and snail mail was all the rage. Maybe a newspaper or two thrown in. But they prevailed, and today the winds of change are blowing again. It reminds me of Basil Rathbone in Sherlock Holmes "Voice of Terror" where at the end of the movie which was made at the beginning of WW2 he stood there overlooking London discussing the "East Wind."

But there's an East wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less. And a greener, better, stronger land will be in the sunshine when the storm is cleared.
 
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Teegate

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Jessica told me she read somewhere that there is a "Go Fund Me" to try and hire a lawyer. Anyway know about that?
 
Ben Ruset

Ben Ruset

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Teegate said:
I was daydreaming at work today and realized that this situation is the more recent generations Jet Port that was fought decades ago. You have to admire those individuals who accomplished so much without social media. Landlines and snail mail was all the rage. Maybe a newspaper or two thrown in. But they prevailed, and today the winds of change are blowing again. It reminds me of Basil Rathbone in Sherlock Holmes "Voice of Terror" where at the end of the movie which was made at the beginning of WW2 he stood there overlooking London discussing the "East Wind."

But there's an East wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less. And a greener, better, stronger land will be in the sunshine when the storm is cleared.
Click to expand...

The thing that saved the Pine Barrens back then was John McPhee's book. That book raised awareness on a national level.
 
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Joer4x4

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Aug 7, 2015
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This is all typical political government bs filled with excuses. It follows the same pattern as other government actions in that one blanket covers all. A decree over the land to install fear in all. As in all their silly laws it won't stop anything. As with other laws it will hurt more people than it will help. And I rest assured that it will benefit the one or the small group that started this politically or monetarily and most likely both.

The truth is never faced and always ignored and the reason behind it is simple. People believe what they are told. It is easier to know other peoples experiences than to experience the knowledge directly themselves. This is what everyone as been taught.

Someone somewhere turned around and said I don't like this so I am going to change it. I am going to make a law or rule so they can not do this. I will have control and I will be happy. I don't care about anything else because I am better than they are. They are ignorant and below me and I will punish them if they do not like it.

It rings of the same thinking from a thousand years ago. No one will stand up because of fear of being cast out or politically different.

The damaged caused by any vehicle is nothing compared to the big business of the Bog Iron and Glass industries of the past. Look at the forest again – you are seeing the last 150 years or so. It was wiped out prior to that time. But that is OK and I believe if that were the case today it would still be ok because money old be involved. It took more damage to create the roads through Wharton than any ATV could do.

From my experience that forest has more power than any vehicle will ever have. I have seen customized vehicles with tread so thick you could hide in there and no one could find you. And the forest took that vehicle and made it its own. The most damage I have ever witnessed are tire tracks and ruts. Those things fade as the forest takes back what is hers.

More damage is cause by fire and rain. Have you ever been in Wharton during a storm when the trails and roads turn into rivers. Have you ever seen water run so fast it swirls and heaves (creating a rut) then flies up in the air and creates runoff into the forest? Have you ever seen the waters push sand around easier than the wind can blow a leaf. It is an awesome site of a creation so grand words can not explain it. And I bet you assumed ruts where created only by four wheel drive vehicles.

If you go onto many of the unmapped side roads where only four wheelers can go you just might find they are smoother and easier to travel than the main roads like Hampton or Hawkin roads. If the unmapped roads are not as rutted then it can not be the four wheel drive vehicles causing all the damage. It has to be the two wheel drive cars that do not have the clearance or traction and wind up stuck spinning their wheels.

Do you remember what the forest looked like when their was a drought back in '97?

You don't have to believe me because I say so. Go experience it for yourself if you want to know.

Do you think the ones who want to close down the roads have ever experience the power of the forest?

And where is all this damage? Why is it not shown? Why are the places not pointed out?

Is it because it does not exist? Just because they say so does not mean it is truth or fact.

The forest rangers run around the same flat trails day after day in their weak Ford Escapes. What damage do they experience? The ruts of Hawkin Road? They could never get to the action is in the bog or where the deep water holes are. Isn't it obvious how much the powers that be care about the forest. The rangers have top notch equipment to get the bad guys, right?

There is a simple rule of life and that is “all is one”. When they shut down the forest and you are standing there looking at it, you may realize that you and the forest are one because they shut you down too.

Politicians and bureaucrats make a living by taking freedom away. Freedom is the power of expression intrinsic to each and every on of us. When that power is restricted it will manifest itself in other ways that may not be so constructive. It can not be stopped for it is the life force within us.

So it comes full circle. For in every instance they restrict you they restrict themselves and they manifest it in their limited thinking and archaic ideals. “All is one” can not be escaped.


We have been there and we have done that over and over. Is it time time to move on yet?
 
ecampbell

ecampbell

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Jan 2, 2003
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Greg OBrien said:
The closures continue to spread and have worked into Camden County. This is out by Sandy Causeway.

I spotted about a dozen other signs, but the sheer enthusiam of this closure suggest it was an intensely emotional experience!! LOL

I had to take a picture of this whack-jobs handiwork: Two signs, 20-30 dead falls, and several fresh cut trees dropped... what's back there, hidden treasure?

Almost worth taking a drive back there to see what the big deal is... ;)
Click to expand...

How is this keeping the roads open for mountain biking, hiking and horse back riding?
 
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Teegate

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bobpbx

bobpbx

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Oct 25, 2002
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Joer4x4 said:
....The damaged caused by any vehicle is nothing compared to the big business of the Bog Iron and Glass industries of the past. Look at the forest again – you are seeing the last 150 years or so. It was wiped out prior to that time. But that is OK and I believe if that were the case today it would still be ok because money old be involved. It took more damage to create the roads through Wharton than any ATV could do.

From my experience that forest has more power than any vehicle will ever have. I have seen customized vehicles with tread so thick you could hide in there and no one could find you. And the forest took that vehicle and made it its own. The most damage I have ever witnessed are tire tracks and ruts. Those things fade as the forest takes back what is hers.

More damage is cause by fire and rain. Have you ever been in Wharton during a storm when the trails and roads turn into rivers. Have you ever seen water run so fast it swirls and heaves (creating a rut) then flies up in the air and creates runoff into the forest? Have you ever seen the waters push sand around easier than the wind can blow a leaf. It is an awesome site of a creation so grand words can not explain it. And I bet you assumed ruts where created only by four wheel drive vehicles.

If you go onto many of the unmapped side roads where only four wheelers can go you just might find they are smoother and easier to travel than the main roads like Hampton or Hawkin roads. If the unmapped roads are not as rutted then it can not be the four wheel drive vehicles causing all the damage. It has to be the two wheel drive cars that do not have the clearance or traction and wind up stuck spinning their wheels.

Do you remember what the forest looked like when their was a drought back in '97?

You don't have to believe me because I say so. Go experience it for yourself if you want to know.

Do you think the ones who want to close down the roads have ever experience the power of the forest?

And where is all this damage? Why is it not shown? Why are the places not pointed out?

Is it because it does not exist? Just because they say so does not mean it is truth or fact.
Click to expand...

Joe, you can't swing fully the other way on this issue, It will definitely end up hurting the cause. Your post indicates it is okay to go anywhere, that the damage will heal itself. There are those of us who still do enjoy the forest in its natural state. It should not have to be torn all the hell to enjoy it. You want photos of damage? I have plenty. You need to promote a balance here, you cannot have a free for all out there in sensitive areas.
 
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smoke_jumper

smoke_jumper

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Atco, NJ
I was just on the PPA's Facebook page. They have posted pictures showing the "devastation". None of them are roads. A freshly burnt Jemima Mount. That's been closed off for years and yet vehicles still drive up it. I pile of tv's? This new map will surely stop somebody from dumping.:rolleyes: And the rest are just sand pits. I doubt anybody here would have a problem closing them off. Those pictures only work on people who don't go out in the pines.
 
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46er

46er

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Mar 24, 2004
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