Pair of Timber Rattlers

[dragoncjo]

Very good point GermanG. Another thing with the TR's is that the chance of encountering one for the average recreational pine barrens user is quite rare. You will find gravid females occassionally out in the open(on a trail, road) but gravid females are very very mellow because they are conserving all their energy to make it through a phenomenally stressful process. Nongravid females and males for the most part are never found in any sort of habitat that humans use(other than the PBX gang). Realistically there is very little to fear from these animals. One other point is that over time many of the aggressive traits and animals that rattle quickly have been selected out of the population by humans(killed)

Karl, in regards to your question. Timbers will shed often over a course of a year. The months you indicated are times when the snakes will shed but not specific to those months. I've found sheds in every month from May to October. As for them being more aggressive during this time not sure....I've actually never found a aggressive snake in my life to be honest. If you mess with them you will see some aggression.....but nobody should be messing with them. People should be aware of these creatures but not fearful in my opinion.

 

[GermanG]

I’ve also tried to impress on people what little chance they have of encountering a rattler. The problem is that it is hard to reason with an irrational fear. My brain tells me I am much safer flying than driving but I still have a terrible fear of flying. When I worked at Cattus Island Park, it was common for us to take the snakes from the tanks to let visitors feel them, hoping to dispel some of their fears. Unfortunately, the problems associated with too many people handling them resulted in a decision to eliminate public contact with the animals, which I have mixed feelings over.

 

[Chrisr]

I have to be real honest here. I've always had a fear of snakes, especially rattlers. I was of the thinking that if you encountered one, a good bite was in your future. (I can thank my relatives in Millville for that!!) However, after joining the forums here, and reading about them, especially Dragoncjo's posts, I no longer have that misconception. Should I see one in my travels someday, yes, I will have a severly messed up pair of underwear, but I will not be afraid the animal coming after me to inflict a bite. I'll consider myself lucky to have seen one. (Not that I'm picking one of those suckers up, mind you!! LOL!). I guess I'll always have that fear though, but not as bad as before. Thank you all!!!

 

[dragoncjo]

Chrisr that is why I post on these forums to clear up misconceptions about reptiles and amphibs. Unwanton killings have put a hurting on many snake population throughout time, so much so that many NE dens are extirpated. So the more people who understand the animals the better. Thanks for listening. One thing I must state is I'm not encouraging anyone to handle snakes, in fact I feel the opposite that they should be handled as little as possible. But I just want to emphasize that it is very easy to live around these animals.....they are only a threat if you seek them for the most part. Most bites occur from people who are drunk or intentionally harassing the animal.

 

[Chrisr]

Believe me Dragoncjo, I know enough not to handle any wild animal. And I'm darn sure not going to be drunk and or handle or harrass something that could potentialy kill me. Those TR's live there, not me. I'm in their "home". I'll gladly play by their rules.

 

[imkms]

I have to be real honest here. I've always had a fear of snakes, especially rattlers. I was of the thinking that if you encountered one, a good bite was in your future.......

I think most people have a natural fear of snakes, me included. Although I've never seen a rattler in the pines, on two occasions I nearly stepped on a rattler in the mountains of Virginia. The first time, my boot was 6 inches from the snake curled up on the side of the trail. I never would have seen it, but did hear it rattle and froze in my tracks. Apparently the rattle was simply a warning to back off, which I did and that was the end of it. The second time was similar, but I spotted it before getting too close, it did not rattle and just let me walk by (of course I took the wide way around). Since we are so much larger than them, they can't eat us but will defend themselves when necessary.

 

[swwit]

What the heck are you talking about Steve???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What I mean is that they can become aggressive at any time. I've seen rattlesnakes both in the northeast and the southwest that are known"docile species" become enraged by the sight of a human. To the point of where they thrust their bodies and tumble. LOL

 

[swwit]

Steve just likes to analyze ever word I say....hah. But I really don't appreciate at all the public accusation that I'm someone to to keep your eye on, you know what I'm about, I make that quite obvious.....I have a permit to study these animals and its part of my job to clear up any misconceptions about these magnificent animals.

Chris, what I'm saying is that you should never trust a snake and saying that " TR's in the pines and in general are very very docile(I'm serious) but "that situation is the only one where they can become slightly aggresive" is not accurate. And it's incorrect to say that a certain situation is the "only" situation that they can become slightly aggressive. I'm not analyzing every word you say just this quote. I'll stay out of it next time. What do I know.

 

[dragoncjo]

Steve, remember I'm specifically talking about Jersey snakes. I don't look for herps really outside of south jersey to be honest. I've never had a timber in the pines act even remotely aggressive but I give a wide berth on them for the most part, never hook them(nor should anyone), and always stay out of their strike distance. It would take alot of convincing for me to think they are aggresive snakes. Canebrakes are different, but my expirience with PB timbers is most people have little to fear. I'm not doubting what you think, but that just hasn't been my expirience.

 

[woodjin]

I've had a few jersey rattler encounters and they have all been great. The best was one time when i was riding my motorcyle deep in the woods in an open grassy area (I won't say more about the location) it was after a rain and muddy as hell. I saw what I thought was a pinesnake in the distance along the trail/road and I speed up to about 10 or 15ft in front of it, got off the bike and headed over to it.

Suddendly I realized, "hey, this isn't a pine snake" and as I'm registering that, I hear the rattle going like crazy. Keep in mind I had my helmet on which reduces volume and my bike was just shut off. I couldn't have been more than 6' away when I realized this. This was a big one, real big. girth as thick as my forearm and nearly 6' long.

I stopped immeditely and backed up and removed my helmet. When he was confident I was retreating he took off like a bat out of hell. As fast as I've seen any racer move. He even swam across a large mud puddle before disappearing into the thicket.

In retrospect the snake acted very docile for the situation. He clearly did not want a confrontation and gave me every warning in the world. The only time I've ever had a confrontation with any snake is when I have deliberately tried to catch it and the snake realized it was without escape. (I never have, and never will attempt to catch a rattler).

The only exception (in my experience) might be northern watersnakes which have not attempted to retreat on my approach and stood their ground violently.

Jeff

 

[swwit]

Steve, remember I'm specifically talking about Jersey snakes. I don't look for herps really outside of south jersey to be honest. I've never had a timber in the pines act even remotely aggressive but I give a wide berth on them for the most part, never hook them(nor should anyone), and always stay out of their strike distance. It would take alot of convincing for me to think they are aggresive snakes. Canebrakes are different, but my expirience with PB timbers is most people have little to fear. I'm not doubting what you think, but that just hasn't been my expirience.

I've seen some act like you weren't even there and then on the other hand I've seen some rattle and move into a defensive pose. Go figure.

 

[manumuskin]

Dragon,

I know a fellow who kept a pair of dusky pygmies at one time and he occasionally free handed them because he said they were so docile he didn't feel they were a threat and he claimed if bitten the worst that might happen was he would lose a digit.Now I have ten digits and wish to keep all ten and no matter how docile a venemous snake may seem I do not know what would possess a person to free hand one.I have hooked and pinned rattlers and have never hurt one and when released the ones that were docile when i pinned them were still docile when i released them so i apparently didn't piss them off too much.I just have a hard time seeing a beautiful snake and not getting a closer look at it and as you know most snakes don't wait around for you to take pics if you don't grab them instantly their gone.Thats what happened with the green snake whip just shot.he was lying in the sand road and whip got off a shot because the snake thought he was camo,apparently they may be color blind but once he realized he was spotted he was off for the brush so i grabbed his tail and detained him in the grass clump till he was assured of pb forum celebrity status and then as soon as i released the tail he was off like a jet.
Are you saying you've never handled a rattler or any snake but admire from afar?
Al

 

[bobpbx]

I see at least one timber rattler every year. I am not afraid to pin one with a stick and handle him, but I just can't do it...I think it is because I respect how rare and unique they are, and I'd hate to sully that with human handling (not to mention they have never acted aggressive towards me, so I want to return the favor).

 

[kayakmac]

Hey I'm just sayin' that there's dolcile and there's aggressive, and when I step on a "dolcile" TR, I reserve the right to "aggressively" soil my breeches! (And it doesn't matter if it's shedding or not 'cause I'm not sticking around to check!) My quest for "it tastes just like chicken" is not that important!

 

[manumuskin]

Hey I'm just sayin' that there's dolcile and there's aggressive, and when I step on a "dolcile" TR, I reserve the right to "aggressively" soil my breeches! (And it doesn't matter if it's shedding or not 'cause I'm not sticking around to check!) My quest for "it tastes just like chicken" is not that important!

snakes have more body meat ratio per weight then probably any other animal but no I have never eaten one and it pisses me off when I see these new so called survival shows cut ones head off to fry it up.I couldn't bring myself to intentionally kill a snake,I'd off Bambi first.If I was starving to death I no doubt would but I'd have to be very hungry to off Kaa.
Al

 

[dragoncjo]

Al, I don't handle snakes found out in the open. I have handled ones that I've flipped for pictures but very briefly. I've been fortunate enough to work with some studies and realize how much handling snakes effects their behavior. I would never hook any timbers nor should anyone unless the snake is needed to be moved from a vulnerable area. As for pinning I'll let Steve speak about that, but too my knowledge pinning is something very much frowned upon. I have a deep respect for TR's and even frequent encounters with individuals will cause them to alter their behavior.

 

[swwit]

Al, I don't handle snakes found out in the open. I have handled ones that I've flipped for pictures but very briefly. I've been fortunate enough to work with some studies and realize how much handling snakes effects their behavior. I would never hook any timbers nor should anyone unless the snake is needed to be moved from a vulnerable area. As for pinning I'll let Steve speak about that, but too my knowledge pinning is something very much frowned upon. I have a deep respect for TR's and even frequent encounters with individuals will cause them to alter their behavior.

I guess everyone has their theories. Pinning has it's bad points, tailing has it's bad points. Either one can injure the snake equally but unfortunately the showmen on these t.v. shows try to glorify tailing venomous snakes for the shock factor. Pinning on the other hand is needed when the snakes are being milked for venom. In the field it doesn't have much use. :science:

 

[manumuskin]

Swwitt,
you have a point.Their are many instances of abuse.Biologists often cram snakes into flat boxes to measure them no doubt stressful to the snake.They also tube them so they can stick probes up their cloacas to sex them which must be very stressful to males who are not intended by nature to be probed at all then of course as you state the milking experience has to be one of the top abuses perpetrated upon rattlers but entirely necessary if we wish to have antivenin handy.Then how about the worst perpetration of violence wreaked upon snakes by biologists which is chipping of snakes.Eventually they speak of doing this with hypodermic needles but till then they surgically chip snakes every two to three years which no doubt causes much stress to the serpent subjected to it.I know of a 7 ft pine snake known as ole grandad in manumuskin preserve who lived to be 25 years old through repeated chippings till foun a couple years ago dead from an infection sustained from his latest chipping surgery.Of course this was done in the name of science which makes it entirely excusable while it is darn near a felony for a peon such as us to pick one up to check it out and photograph it and release it unharmed.What I wouldn't do for a college degree so I could be deemed smart enough to pick up a rattlesnake without subjecting it to permanent PTSD.
Al

 

[swwit]

Swwitt,
you have a point.Their are many instances of abuse.Biologists often cram snakes into flat boxes to measure them no doubt stressful to the snake.They also tube them so they can stick probes up their cloacas to sex them which must be very stressful to males who are not intended by nature to be probed at all then of course as you state the milking experience has to be one of the top abuses perpetrated upon rattlers but entirely necessary if we wish to have antivenin handy.Then how about the worst perpetration of violence wreaked upon snakes by biologists which is chipping of snakes.Eventually they speak of doing this with hypodermic needles but till then they surgically chip snakes every two to three years which no doubt causes much stress to the serpent subjected to it.I know of a 7 ft pine snake known as ole grandad in manumuskin preserve who lived to be 25 years old through repeated chippings till foun a couple years ago dead from an infection sustained from his latest chipping surgery.Of course this was done in the name of science which makes it entirely excusable while it is darn near a felony for a peon such as us to pick one up to check it out and photograph it and release it unharmed.What I wouldn't do for a college degree so I could be deemed smart enough to pick up a rattlesnake without subjecting it to permanent PTSD.
Al

Transmitters and p.i.t. taggs are not healthy for the snakes at all. If people are concerned with not stressing out the animal then leave it alone all together. So you're right about what you say.

 

[manumuskin]

i do agree with milking because antivenin is a legitimate need for the same reason i unfortunately agree with animal testing of medicinal products.I also really don't believe any lasting harm is done by measuring and sexing if the probing is done competently which i am not competent to do it and will not try it but i do believe chipping is plain BS.I also do not believe handling a snake once in the wild will habituate him to people and that he will show up at our garbage cans the next morning.
Al