Penn Place

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
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I was checking the old maps again today and noticed their was a clearing listed there back then.Was there a settlement there?when?
Also their are ruins along the road from Oswego lake out to Simms bogs about a mile past oswego lake on the right heading east.What was this place.Their is one foundation and a couple of parallel walls on the south side of the road and one small low wall on the north side.
Al
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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millville nj
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Red Oak Clay Works

Their is a small settlement I noticed on the maps and found on the ground while searching for the graves.All that I found other then obvious disturbed ground was what appeared to be a small shallow cellar hole.Does anyone have any info on this place?It"s exactly halfway between red oak grove and the clay works.mostly on the west side of the road and a little on the east.
Al
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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To answer my own questions about penn place I went out there yesterday before the rain started.Their is a small claring on the north side of the road with a few bricks and a small hill covered in grass that may be a foundation and one small rectangular cellar hole along with several walnut trees.On the south side of the road their is a couple walnut trees with a possible very shallow cellar hole next to the biggest.I tried to bushwack a little but the area is not conducive to bushwacking in shorts as my legs will show.chiggers got me and I didn"t want to spray my permethrin on bare skin so i let em eat me.The bumps i have today show i taste good,leat to a chigger anyway.The woods are fairly big pines with scrub oak and catbriar liberally mixed in.The clearing shown on the old map is much larger so this area might be good to bushwack in winter with long pants and long sleeve flannel on.
Al
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,255
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Pines; Bamber area
manumuskin said:
Also their are ruins along the road from Oswego lake out to Simms bogs about a mile past oswego lake on the right heading east.What was this place.Their is one foundation and a couple of parallel walls on the south side of the road and one small low wall on the north side.
Al

Al, that foundation was one of the first Kentucky Fried Chicken franchises in NJ. When the expected crowds at Lake Owsego never materialized they went bankrupt. The small low wall on the north side is the remnants of a Sunoco Gas station. Again, they folded when the expected traffic turned out to be an occasional hard-luck pickeral fisherman and hunters during deer season.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist........ :lol: :rolleyes:
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
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It was a Jack-In-The-Box! The foundations are much too small for a KFC. And I thought you knew the pines Bob! :grin:

Guy
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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well whatever it was theirs two penthouses left.one next to the clearing and another back in the woods 50 yards.both had five gallon buckets for seats and ropes to pull up room service.someone spilled their food because i saw little piles of hard cracked corn laying in the clearings.
Al
 

Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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Incidentally, Jack in the Box probably is the WORST fast food known to man, trailing behind only Taco Bell.

When I had it in California, it reminded me of high school cafeteria food.
 
B

bach2yoga

Guest
bruset said:
Incidentally, Jack in the Box probably is the WORST fast food known to man, trailing behind only Taco Bell.

When I had it in California, it reminded me of high school cafeteria food.

WHAT??? Taco Bell is bad??? (okay, so I would pick Casa la Pita (Deptford...yumm) anyday....) Where does Mickey D fit in there???

Renee
 

bobpbx

Piney
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Oct 25, 2002
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Pines; Bamber area
Actually Al, Penn place is an enigma wrapped around a mystery. I have been to where the old maps show a settlement, but the ground is so low and swampy I'm not sure how anyone could last there.........bob
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~batsto/Towns/PennPlace/PennPlace.html

Bob this is the little info I found on the place.This guy knows the roots of it and I know the locale.Yes their is a small field/yard and a cellar hole and a mound and whose knows whats under that along with walnut trees and i could smell catnip but couldn"t track it to source.Your right the area is low and semi swamp,maybe thats why the cellar hole is only three feet deep.
Al
 

bobpbx

Piney
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Oct 25, 2002
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There is more in "Heart of the Pines" by Pierce:

...."the family (Penn) did end up out in the swamps of northeastern Washington Township. Henry Bisbee says that they were here by 1795 and remained in the vicinity at least as late as 1850".

"(Charles) Kier had "off the record" permission to do some exploratory excavations in the area in three shallow depressions back in 1982 and found springs (floor nails) which he believed dated back to about 1810, cut nails, home made red clay bricks, very thin window glass, ....(etc.) (Pierce, 760).
 

bobpbx

Piney
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Oct 25, 2002
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Pines; Bamber area
In 1999, my exploring club bushwacked from the red cross on the below map in a bee line to bear swamp hill. It was tough. We were on our knees often.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=1...4&s=50&size=l&u=0&layer=DRG25

Here is the trip report:

Trip Report for Bear Swamp Hill 3/23/99

We were eleven strong and ready to go. When we first headed into the woods the greenbriar was very bad. An omen for the day? We came to a stream flowing into Lake Oswego. There was much beaver activity back there, and deer scrapings too. We had to head East in order to find a place to cross. One of us did get our feet wet from slipping in.

We found a clearing, took our bearings, and headed due East towards the Oswego river. Entered a beautiful cedar swamp with a great amount of pitcher plants. Came out upon the river. It is wider than I thought at this point.

Continued following the cedar swamp and river East for about a half mile. Very peaceful and green back here, easily traveled too.

Came back out on road again quite by accident, had found an old foundation and while standing on it saw the road only 15 yards away! When we came out on the road we found Joe Wszolek, who had arrived late.

Took a short break in the road and set our compass on a straight course for Bear Swamp Hill. The going became extremely thick with greenbriar and mountain laurel. We in the front had to get on our hands and knees several times (you people in back had it easy……ha-ha!)

The problem was the elevation. We were only 60 to 70 feet above sea level and close to the ground water. Things were growing in wild abandon and absolute profusion. We found a cluster of cedar trees that had to be at least 100 years old. I estimate the diameter of one to be 36 to 40 inches. From now on lets bring a measuring tape and keep a better record.

After about an (hour?) of fighting the briars we finally saw the light of day, a small patch of pine uplands. The briar all around us was like a sea of hazy green. I have never seen it so thick.

In about 5 minutes more, we were at the base of 2 hills…..the compass said the left one, we chose the right. Although not Bear Swamp Hill it was almost as high when we reached the top. It is about 100 yards North East of Bear Swamp Hill. I hereby christen it PBX hill. We had some pretty neat views from PBX hill!

We then took a trail we found over to Bear Swamp Hill. Took about 45 seconds to get there. Trumpets were blaring when we reached the top.

We took a break and headed South on the road on the North side of the hill. We came to the first crossroad and decided to hit the woods again. After about 50 yards, we hit the great china wall of sticker bushes. We agreed as a group that enough is enough. We hiked out to the road and happily hiked back to the cars in a steady rain.

Over all, it was a good trip, but not a great one. On a scale of 1 to 10, I’d give it a 6.

As Mike said though, its all part of the exploring experience, you learn something from every trip.

Now I know why they call it Bear Swamp Hill, the swamp below it is a real bear!
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,255
4,369
Pines; Bamber area
BEHR655 said:
Bob, Sounds like you had a blast. Did you have any flesh left on you when you were done? :D

I have vivid memories of beating the briars ahead of me down with a walking stick before attempting to walk through a lot of that. Even then, at days end my shins were pretty scarred up. It was due to that trip that I wear those upland hunting pants with codura nylon on the face of the front when I bushwack......:wink:
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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perhaps the cellar hole wasn"t a cellar hole but an excavation and the little hill in the left side of the field is the spoils.the bricks are laying around the base of it.makes sense.the ground here is so low that if I built a house on it I"d forget the basement though the hole/excavation does not appear to be wet in the bottom.
Bob,I"ve bushwacked those woods myself before.Your club has spunk.I"ve been on my belly a few times in places like that and the woods have rang with some flowery speech at times:)
Al
 

KenDawg

Scout
Aug 10, 2003
91
0
South Jersey
Al,
I found this info about Penn Place.
Ken

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I have so far come across almost no information regarding this tiny village; I do not believe it still exists at all today. The only mention of it I have ever come across is in Major Woodard's History of Burlington County, published in 1883. He says it was in what was at that time Randolph Township. Below is the entire description: This settlement is situated in the northeast part of the township, on the Wading River. It is merely a small rural hamlet containing a few scattered dwelling houses.
Elsewhere in that same history, Woodward gives a brief genealogy of the Penn family but what if any their relation is to this town I have not ascertained. Below is the genealogy he provided:
"It is said that William Penn, the founder of Philadelphia, had an adopted son, and from him descended the Penns of Cumberland, Burlington, and Ocean Counties."

James Penn, sr. emigrated from Cumberland County to Washington Township. He settled on the West Plains, where he lived until about 1814, when he died at the age of 88. His children were:

William. He married Sarah Jenkins and had:
Jesse, who married Rebecca Headley, daughter of Jacob Headley
Zephaniah married Hope Headley, daughter of Jacob Headley.
James
William
Susan
Lucy Ann
James
Joel
Jonathan
Stacy
John
Elizabeth, who married Lewis Russel and had:
James Russel
Champion Russel
Ridgway Russel
Samuel Russel
Rhoda, who married Zachariah Jenkins.
Hannah
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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Kendawg,

I thin you found the website I found.Thats all I could find out about it too.I would like to know if what I took as the cellar hole was really a cellar or an excavation as Bob M brings up.If so the small hill on the other side of the clearing could be excavation spoils otherwise it could be the ruins of a wood house or something else?
Al
 
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