Piney Water
- Thread starter pineywoman
- Start date
Maybe?! I need to read the web page in its entirety but indications are that if the farmers ponds are located in a strategic location and designed properly that the ponds can be utilized as a cost effective means of controlling farm run off. Farm runoff, as we all know, is one of the major causes of water pollution.
I know Rutgers is pretty big on the rain gardens. They've developed them in a few South Jersey Parks my way. It is very interesting the Piney water though. I have looked up the USGS readings. It's pretty neat with the map and locations. Although couldn't find readings on the Cohansey resevoir itself. Only most of the rivers, streams etc. Oh this Pineywoman is getting a JOB soon, it is time. Any suggestions/referrals appreciated hahaha. I won't have as much time on here 
However, I promise to still explore and also have a few referrals from friends I'm seeking out. I am a career woman. Not a typical stay at home mommy. Thanks!!
I have tremendously enjoyed this discussion!! EVERYONE has something to offer!
However, I promise to still explore and also have a few referrals from friends I'm seeking out. I am a career woman. Not a typical stay at home mommy. Thanks!! I have tremendously enjoyed this discussion!! EVERYONE has something to offer!
You are right scubabruce the oxygen is number one. Without oxygen the PH doesn’t matter. I didn’t mention there is an Aerating Fountains in the lake. Not a very big one as they go but I think it helps.
Don
The carbon exchanged in the PH is vital to the plant life as well. So I have read..... It is crazy what they did to Lake Audrey. Changed the whole PH level of the lake and took YEARS for it to be suitable for fish. Now one of the better locations to catch bass. Lime does wonders.
Pineywoman
You are correct about the carbon exchange. Also, calcium level is important for bone or shell development. Not only is the PH of the water important but also the PH of the bottom soil is also important for plant growth. We limed the lake last winter as per recommendations, however we could not drain the water and work lime into the bottom soil. The PH of the water is running form 6.4 to 6.7 now, which is ideal for most fish. So we will restock and see what happens.
Don
Hey chemistry comes in handy from time to time. Doesn't lime tend to rise to the surface? Is there a binder that could be put on top of the sand for the lime to take hold? I love the lake and the story behind it. Many volunteers came together and worked hard to get it right.
Chemistry helps now n then, along with a little math, I think the pulverized lime worked well in the water. A little granulated lime for the bottom. The PH was checked about 18 or 20 inches below the surface. The plan was to just spread it on the ice, but no ice last winter. At our age we make everything into a project.
Reduction in dissolved oxygen is responsible for most fish kills. O2 concentration is typically a function of one of three things: temperature, biological oxygen demand (BOD) or chemical oxygen demand (COD).
The higher the temperature of the water, the less dissolved O2, so summer fish kills many times are attributed to high temps.
BOD depletes dissolved O2 when aerobic bacteria (bacteria that use O2 in respiration) use the O2 to break down organic matter that is loaded into the ecosystem. This is what happens with eutrophication. A lot of plant nutrients are introduced to an aquatic ecosystem. The resulting algal bloom eventually dies, and the aerobic bacteria use all of the dissolved O2 to break down the organic matter. Once O2 is depleted, the fish and aerobic bacteria also die, increasing the dead biomass. Anaerobic bacteria (which give off harmful waste products) take over to break down the biomass and basically poison the ecosystem. It's sad and not so uncommon. This is the reason why the levels of phosphorous and nitrogen must be monitored in wastewater effluent, and the reason why detergents are advertised as being 'phosphate free'.
An example of COD would be the introduction of some inorganic substance that combines with O2 and forms compounds with it. Free O2 is necessary for respiration. If the oxygen is 'tied up' in a compound it can't be used.
The major reason for fish reduction due to pH is the damage to fish eggs. High pH (basicity) can also damage fish scales and their bodies.
Low pH (high acidity) also damages amphibian eggs, so vernal pools are also threatened by acid deposition. Low pH also potentially leaches metals from compounds and frees it to bioaccumulate in a food chain.
Don Catts, you presented some really interesting data. Mind if I use it with my students when we talk about this topic?
The higher the temperature of the water, the less dissolved O2, so summer fish kills many times are attributed to high temps.
BOD depletes dissolved O2 when aerobic bacteria (bacteria that use O2 in respiration) use the O2 to break down organic matter that is loaded into the ecosystem. This is what happens with eutrophication. A lot of plant nutrients are introduced to an aquatic ecosystem. The resulting algal bloom eventually dies, and the aerobic bacteria use all of the dissolved O2 to break down the organic matter. Once O2 is depleted, the fish and aerobic bacteria also die, increasing the dead biomass. Anaerobic bacteria (which give off harmful waste products) take over to break down the biomass and basically poison the ecosystem. It's sad and not so uncommon. This is the reason why the levels of phosphorous and nitrogen must be monitored in wastewater effluent, and the reason why detergents are advertised as being 'phosphate free'.
An example of COD would be the introduction of some inorganic substance that combines with O2 and forms compounds with it. Free O2 is necessary for respiration. If the oxygen is 'tied up' in a compound it can't be used.
The major reason for fish reduction due to pH is the damage to fish eggs. High pH (basicity) can also damage fish scales and their bodies.
Low pH (high acidity) also damages amphibian eggs, so vernal pools are also threatened by acid deposition. Low pH also potentially leaches metals from compounds and frees it to bioaccumulate in a food chain.
Don Catts, you presented some really interesting data. Mind if I use it with my students when we talk about this topic?
NJChileHead,
Yes, you are more than welcome to use any data.
Basically we are trying to make a nice fishing hole for the local kids without harm to the ecosystem or the natural pineland environment. So any tips or comments ( pro or con) are welcome as well (from anyone). A little more data – the pond, about 4 to 6 acres (old cranberry bog) is feed only by a large cedar swamp (some really nice white cedar) so for the most part the only water flow is from a rain. It is about 6 ft deep in the center. Several years ago he put channel catfish in it and they did really well. He had an automatic feeder on the dock. Some of the catfish got over 20 lbs. (the kids had fun with them, the rules were caught, measure, weigh, picture, and back in)
The re-stock list this company put together for the lake (pond) is interesting, everything from mussels to bass including some bullfrog tadpoles.
I suggested a pile of horse manure in the back corner to get more organisms working. Good idea or not?
Thanks for your interest, Don
Yes, you are more than welcome to use any data.
Basically we are trying to make a nice fishing hole for the local kids without harm to the ecosystem or the natural pineland environment. So any tips or comments ( pro or con) are welcome as well (from anyone). A little more data – the pond, about 4 to 6 acres (old cranberry bog) is feed only by a large cedar swamp (some really nice white cedar) so for the most part the only water flow is from a rain. It is about 6 ft deep in the center. Several years ago he put channel catfish in it and they did really well. He had an automatic feeder on the dock. Some of the catfish got over 20 lbs. (the kids had fun with them, the rules were caught, measure, weigh, picture, and back in)
The re-stock list this company put together for the lake (pond) is interesting, everything from mussels to bass including some bullfrog tadpoles.
I suggested a pile of horse manure in the back corner to get more organisms working. Good idea or not?
Thanks for your interest, Don
Hi Don,
I would assume that it would be difficult to modify abiotic factors in a lake that much. The lake is being constantly fed acidic water by the cedar swamp. I would think that a better choice would be to find fish species whose range of tolerance for pH fits the pH of the lake. Sunfish and pickerel come to mind, but I might be wrong.
Chilehead
I would assume that it would be difficult to modify abiotic factors in a lake that much. The lake is being constantly fed acidic water by the cedar swamp. I would think that a better choice would be to find fish species whose range of tolerance for pH fits the pH of the lake. Sunfish and pickerel come to mind, but I might be wrong.
Chilehead
My thoughts were along those same lines. Put local fish in there like pickerel, sunfish, eels and bullheads then let nature take its coarse. You are right on the sunfish they can spawn in a low PH environment; most of the others need a higher PH. However, pickerel is the one fish he does not want in the lake. He thinks they will eat all the other fish, although I think a bass will do the same thing. But pickerel have that reputation.
The PH is good now but as you pointed out the swamp water should began it right back down. But, after all this rain the PH is holding in the 6+ range. I’ll post if it starts going down.
thanks, Don
Don, it has been many years since I have done any work with aquatics, but I have had quick results when applying flowable dolomitic lime to large (one acre) fish ponds. I found five gallons of liquid is much easier to apply than one ton of ag-lime. The effects were almost immediate and flowable lime can be applied any time of the year. Ag-lime would take a month to start to break down while the liquid would show results by the end of the week. Ag-lime is usually added during the winter months because of the amount of time it takes to react and break down if my memory is correct. I haven't worked with any aquatics in many years but I think flowable lime could be another option.
Robert
Robert
Robert, this is good information, I wonder how long the liquid lime works compared to Ag-lime? Actually we did talk about liquid lime but we didn’t know enough about it. Also, we thought the granulated would make it down to the bottom soil. I think you are right, liquid is the way to go for future applications. Like you said, it is so much easier and can be applied right before the season when the weather is warmer.
We also talked aboutlarge limestones at the head of the Lake to treat the water as ir comes in???
Thanks for the info on liquid lime, is 5 gallons equal to one ton of Ag-lime?
Don
We also talked aboutlarge limestones at the head of the Lake to treat the water as ir comes in???
Thanks for the info on liquid lime, is 5 gallons equal to one ton of Ag-lime?
Don
Don, I can't remember if it was 2.5 gallons or 5 gallons that was the equivalent of one ton of ag-lime. We also left several bags of hydrated lime along a small feeder stream about one foot underwater to let the motion of wave action and currents to help raise alkalinity over time. Don't forget that liming also increases hardness. Calcium hardness is a critical component of total hardness (environmental hardness) , which Chile touched on, which is a part of osmoregulation. That is all I can remember at the moment with out searching through my old notes. Do you have a local fertilizer supply house?
John Deere (Lesco) is great supplier to start with it and can help with what is currently available and what is legal to apply with the new state laws.
The formula is tons/acre divided by(NV multiplied by NE)= tons of limestone needed
NV is neutralizing value. NE is neutralizing efficiency.
John Deere (Lesco) is great supplier to start with it and can help with what is currently available and what is legal to apply with the new state laws.
The formula is tons/acre divided by(NV multiplied by NE)= tons of limestone needed
NV is neutralizing value. NE is neutralizing efficiency.
The link is for reference material. Like I have said, it has been awhile since I have worked with aquatics so please correct me if necessary.
http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/aquaculture/docs/5864154-4100fs.pdf
http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/aquaculture/docs/5864154-4100fs.pdf
William Wurts is a senior state specialist on aquaculture for co-op extension for Kentucky State. All the information you could possibly need -
http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/WurtsLitpage.htm
http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/WurtsLitpage.htm
Gibby, his is a great reference site he covers everything. When I have time I’ll sit down and read through it. He mentions fish in farm irrigation ponds. All the irrigation pond around here have fish in them. Eagles fish in several of them.
Just got this from PPA...
________________________________
Water Supply: Your Right to Know!, October 18
It is your right to know how water is being used in your community and where it comes from. Join Rich Bizub, PPA's Director for Water Programs, on Thursday, October 18 at 7:00 pm for our Water Supply: Your Right to Know! workshop.
This workshop designed to give you the tools you need to understand where your water comes from, what water company services your town, and why it should matter to you. The workshop begins with an introduction to water supply in New Jersey and the impact that water allocations for public supplies and golf courses can have on the rivers, streams and wetlands in your community. Learn how to obtain crucial information about how water is allocated and what to do with that information. This workshop is a must for anyone who cares about clean drinking water and protecting their community's natural resources.
Cost: $10
Location: Pinelands Preservation Alliance, 17 Pemberton Road, Southampton Twp.
SPACE IS LIMITED; REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED.
Registration: Register online or call 609 859-8860 x14 or email tomdunn@pinelandsalliance.org
PPA's Pinelands Workshops offer hands-on programs that provide tools for effecting positive change and personal enrichment.
Carleton Montgomery
Executive Director
Pinelands Preservation Alliance
17 Pemberton Road, Southampton, NJ 08088
Email: ppa@pinelandsalliance.org
Ph: 609 859-8860
www.pinelandsalliance.org
________________________________
Water Supply: Your Right to Know!, October 18
It is your right to know how water is being used in your community and where it comes from. Join Rich Bizub, PPA's Director for Water Programs, on Thursday, October 18 at 7:00 pm for our Water Supply: Your Right to Know! workshop.
This workshop designed to give you the tools you need to understand where your water comes from, what water company services your town, and why it should matter to you. The workshop begins with an introduction to water supply in New Jersey and the impact that water allocations for public supplies and golf courses can have on the rivers, streams and wetlands in your community. Learn how to obtain crucial information about how water is allocated and what to do with that information. This workshop is a must for anyone who cares about clean drinking water and protecting their community's natural resources.
Cost: $10
Location: Pinelands Preservation Alliance, 17 Pemberton Road, Southampton Twp.
SPACE IS LIMITED; REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED.
Registration: Register online or call 609 859-8860 x14 or email tomdunn@pinelandsalliance.org
PPA's Pinelands Workshops offer hands-on programs that provide tools for effecting positive change and personal enrichment.
Carleton Montgomery
Executive Director
Pinelands Preservation Alliance
17 Pemberton Road, Southampton, NJ 08088
Email: ppa@pinelandsalliance.org
Ph: 609 859-8860
www.pinelandsalliance.org