State's biggest cranberry grower hopes to acquire land, expand
- Thread starter Teegate
- Start date
I wonder just exactly what he means by " the water supply is absolutely crucial." To whom?
Dear God, please let me win the lottery to the tune of $50 million. I have a good use for $6M of it.
Dear God, please let me win the lottery to the tune of $50 million. I have a good use for $6M of it.
He acquired the property on Thursday.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/southjersey/m022505o.htm
Guy
http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/southjersey/m022505o.htm
Guy
Cranbery Growers
Yes, I Suspect Bill Haines Is Thinking Of Himself And His Bogs When He Says The Water Supply Is Crucial ,but Thats Okay. Cranberry Bogs Are A Good Use Of The Area.......better Than Shopping Malls. It Is Interesting That Old Man Demarco,another Big Grower, Died And Left His Lands,lots Of It,to Nature Conservation Groups.......all Because He Had A Standing Feud With Many Of His Fellow Growers. Strom
Yes, I Suspect Bill Haines Is Thinking Of Himself And His Bogs When He Says The Water Supply Is Crucial ,but Thats Okay. Cranberry Bogs Are A Good Use Of The Area.......better Than Shopping Malls. It Is Interesting That Old Man Demarco,another Big Grower, Died And Left His Lands,lots Of It,to Nature Conservation Groups.......all Because He Had A Standing Feud With Many Of His Fellow Growers. Strom
strom said:
Strom, he did not die, he sold it. I was there at the dedication and was standing right next to Demarco. I even have some photo's.
Here he is with Florio.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/8242004/IMG_4281.jpg
Guy
You know, I remember seeing that property (it was Sim Place) for sale on ebay about 2 years ago. I think the opening bid was like 6 million but then a month or so later, it was still for sale but the minimum price was 30 M. It is my understanding that the State once tried to grab that property by condemning it but since cranberries had been farmed there continuously since the 1850's the law would not allow them to seize it.
Haines --- Forestry Venture --- Sim Place --- Cranberry Bogs
Dear Guy,
you mention in a posting of 25 FEB 2005 that Haines & Haines acquired the Sim Place bogs in 2005. In the meantime, what have they done with them?
From what I read on this topic in various postings on the list, there seemed to be speculation that H&H were going to clear--cut the land for the stunted pine, in order to make pitch/tar?? In this day and age, this seems a bit far--fetched, unless "tar futures" on the NSE are "stratosphaeric," and the stunted pines of the region are producing a lot more pitch than they used to...
Then, it seems that H&H was contemplating making a "tree farm"... Although this sounds very interesting, considering the price(s) of building materials, such farms take at least 15 to 20 years to produce marketable lumber --- and that's in MUCH WARMER CLIMATES like Puerto Rico! Investing over $6 mio. in a venture that may or may not produce during what one may consider the "productive lifetime" of a generation seems to be "highly speculative," if not downright "foolhardy"... Especially, so it would seem, since H&H is more experienced in growing fruit.
A couple of years ago, the DEP caused a "stir" with at least one of the large cranberry growers in NJ. For some reason, that I do not completely understand, they were against the development of new bogs, and they wanted to shut--down older operations, if they could --- citing "water pollution concerns"... HOO, HAH!!
Maybe you can "clue" me into what they were attempting to articulate in the A.C.Press?
From what I read, a couple of years ago, the wholesale market for cranberries, nationwide, hit an all--time low. Ocean Spray had a lot to do with this, evidently, and when they "refocussed" their interests on Wisconsin (?), I believe, the NJ cranberry growers were "hit" even harder. If the wholesale prices for cranberries is/was so low, why would H&H invest $6 mio. in the purchase of an "operation" that will take another huge investment to restore/upgrade to today's standards/methods?
I hypothesise that H&H may be more interested in the water --- for irrigation of their other ventures (blueberries, cranberries) elsewhere, since fresh water for irrigation purposes is becoming a scarce commodity in the southern 1/2 of the State, especially since the AC casinos require over 58% of the water pumped daily by the ACUA, not to mention those casinos that have their own "deep wells." That, combined with overdevelopment of the area, has had a marked effect on the water supply to the south of AC --- salt water intrusion in wells in Cape May; farmers on the Cape (with their own, "State permits" driven wells") being banned, by the State, from using their "privately--driven" wells to irrigate their crops...
Can you shed some "light" on this, Guy? What does Sim Place look like today? My understanding was that the Kupire Corp. sold it to the Div. of Wildlife back in 1985, but this is only hearsay. I guess, for purposes of clarification, one would have to look at the deed books for Burlington County, or inquire of the tax assessor for B.R. Twp....
ebsi
TeeGate said:
Dear Guy,
you mention in a posting of 25 FEB 2005 that Haines & Haines acquired the Sim Place bogs in 2005. In the meantime, what have they done with them?
From what I read on this topic in various postings on the list, there seemed to be speculation that H&H were going to clear--cut the land for the stunted pine, in order to make pitch/tar?? In this day and age, this seems a bit far--fetched, unless "tar futures" on the NSE are "stratosphaeric," and the stunted pines of the region are producing a lot more pitch than they used to...
Then, it seems that H&H was contemplating making a "tree farm"... Although this sounds very interesting, considering the price(s) of building materials, such farms take at least 15 to 20 years to produce marketable lumber --- and that's in MUCH WARMER CLIMATES like Puerto Rico! Investing over $6 mio. in a venture that may or may not produce during what one may consider the "productive lifetime" of a generation seems to be "highly speculative," if not downright "foolhardy"... Especially, so it would seem, since H&H is more experienced in growing fruit.
A couple of years ago, the DEP caused a "stir" with at least one of the large cranberry growers in NJ. For some reason, that I do not completely understand, they were against the development of new bogs, and they wanted to shut--down older operations, if they could --- citing "water pollution concerns"... HOO, HAH!!
Maybe you can "clue" me into what they were attempting to articulate in the A.C.Press?
From what I read, a couple of years ago, the wholesale market for cranberries, nationwide, hit an all--time low. Ocean Spray had a lot to do with this, evidently, and when they "refocussed" their interests on Wisconsin (?), I believe, the NJ cranberry growers were "hit" even harder. If the wholesale prices for cranberries is/was so low, why would H&H invest $6 mio. in the purchase of an "operation" that will take another huge investment to restore/upgrade to today's standards/methods?
I hypothesise that H&H may be more interested in the water --- for irrigation of their other ventures (blueberries, cranberries) elsewhere, since fresh water for irrigation purposes is becoming a scarce commodity in the southern 1/2 of the State, especially since the AC casinos require over 58% of the water pumped daily by the ACUA, not to mention those casinos that have their own "deep wells." That, combined with overdevelopment of the area, has had a marked effect on the water supply to the south of AC --- salt water intrusion in wells in Cape May; farmers on the Cape (with their own, "State permits" driven wells") being banned, by the State, from using their "privately--driven" wells to irrigate their crops...
Can you shed some "light" on this, Guy? What does Sim Place look like today? My understanding was that the Kupire Corp. sold it to the Div. of Wildlife back in 1985, but this is only hearsay. I guess, for purposes of clarification, one would have to look at the deed books for Burlington County, or inquire of the tax assessor for B.R. Twp....
ebsi
Hmm. I'm not sure about that particular land acquisition, but one of my very close friends is in Haines family and works at the bogs in Hog Wallow. And as far as *I* know (and that's not saying anything certain), they still focus on growing the berries in New Jersey, and supply primarily to Ocean Spray.
H&H, Sim Place and cranberries
Yes, that seems correct.
Last Wednesday, my guide for the day, who knows one of H&H's workers, told me that although the "deal" to purchase all of the Sim Place bogs has not yet been finalized, H&H is refurbishing/restoring the bogs to once again grow cranberries there. The worker told my guide that H&H "took--out" the second bridge on Beaver Dam Road, in order to get their "heavy machinery" back there. I wonder if the first bridge on Beaver Dam Road is/was larger than the second bridge. If not, how did they get their "heavy machninery" through/past the first bridge?
ebsi
TeeGate said:
Yes, that seems correct.
Last Wednesday, my guide for the day, who knows one of H&H's workers, told me that although the "deal" to purchase all of the Sim Place bogs has not yet been finalized, H&H is refurbishing/restoring the bogs to once again grow cranberries there. The worker told my guide that H&H "took--out" the second bridge on Beaver Dam Road, in order to get their "heavy machinery" back there. I wonder if the first bridge on Beaver Dam Road is/was larger than the second bridge. If not, how did they get their "heavy machninery" through/past the first bridge?
ebsi
I was at Beaver Dam rd on Friday and did not see any signs of large machinery. I did not make it all the way to the first bridge (from 539) but the 2nd bridge (stephens rd/red rd) is intact as usual. I am not sure what your guide might be referring to.
Jeff
Jeff
"Beaver Dam Road"
Jeff,
I am referring to the combined tax maps for parts of Stafford, Little Egg Harbor and Bass River Townships. On Wednesday last, we drove in --- off of 539 --- near Lucille's. In B.R. Twp. the road forks: The "lower fork" (left--hand fork) is called the "Warren Grove Road" on the B.R. tax map, whereas the "upper fork" (right--hand fork) is referred to as "unnamed road" on the same map. The left--hand fork bears a sign: "dead end" or "no outlet": We took the right--hand fork, which my guide referred to as the "Beaver Dam Road." The first bridge is intact; there are some homes on that road (evidently with trash collection); and a ranger/forester has a sign on his mailbox on the left--hand sidge of the road. Shortly after the last house is passed, the road gets very bad quickly, due to a couple of big washouts. There are giant, water--filled potholes, which can be skirted. After the three washouts are passed, a "corner" is reached with a semi--sandy "track" bearing to the left. At the end of that track there are two towers --- one has a "blinking," white light on it, in addition to what look to be "microwave links"... We did not venture past that corner, as my guide had learnt from a friend, who works for H&H, and who has been at Sim Place recently, that the second bridge on that road was "taken out" by H&H so that they could get their "heavy equipment" "back in there"...
"StevensRoad/Red Road" does not seem to be on my map, unless it is one of the so--called "unnamed roads"...
ebsi
woodjin said:
Jeff,
I am referring to the combined tax maps for parts of Stafford, Little Egg Harbor and Bass River Townships. On Wednesday last, we drove in --- off of 539 --- near Lucille's. In B.R. Twp. the road forks: The "lower fork" (left--hand fork) is called the "Warren Grove Road" on the B.R. tax map, whereas the "upper fork" (right--hand fork) is referred to as "unnamed road" on the same map. The left--hand fork bears a sign: "dead end" or "no outlet": We took the right--hand fork, which my guide referred to as the "Beaver Dam Road." The first bridge is intact; there are some homes on that road (evidently with trash collection); and a ranger/forester has a sign on his mailbox on the left--hand sidge of the road. Shortly after the last house is passed, the road gets very bad quickly, due to a couple of big washouts. There are giant, water--filled potholes, which can be skirted. After the three washouts are passed, a "corner" is reached with a semi--sandy "track" bearing to the left. At the end of that track there are two towers --- one has a "blinking," white light on it, in addition to what look to be "microwave links"... We did not venture past that corner, as my guide had learnt from a friend, who works for H&H, and who has been at Sim Place recently, that the second bridge on that road was "taken out" by H&H so that they could get their "heavy equipment" "back in there"...
"StevensRoad/Red Road" does not seem to be on my map, unless it is one of the so--called "unnamed roads"...
ebsi
Then we are referring to the same road. I think your guides' source is inncorrect. The bridge in question was fully intact and unchanged on Friday. Stephens road (as it is referred to on the USGS topo maps) is the road intersecting Beaver Dam road after the bridge (to the west).
Jeff
Jeff
woodjin said:
Jeff,
Could you have travelled all they way into what was once the little village of Sim Place, if you had wanted to?
ebsi
P.S.: I would be very interested in knowing what it looked like prior to, say, 1910 --- in comparison to what it looks like today.
e.
Ebsi,
If I were to continue south on Stephens rd. (Basically taken a left on Stephens from Beaver Dam) the road goes right past Sim place, however, Sim place proper is private and is gated off. It is gated from several spots where stephens rd runs along it. I have always been curious about that area but have never wanted to trespass. It is gated or posted at all roads that run to it. So I can't say what remains of sim place today, or what was there in the past considering that I havn't seen or read much about it really. I suppose it is possible to see the area by canoeing/kayaking up the oswego. The river is public I believe regardless of what property it crosses. I think Bob and probably Ed have done this. I have been meaning to do that. I guess Haines owns it now huh? Do you have info that it was actually a town at one time? I know in the '74 National Geographic there is a picture of Leroy Green, a resident of the "almost empy village of Sim Place" I thoght it was mostly a cranberry community, like hog wallow.
Jeff
If I were to continue south on Stephens rd. (Basically taken a left on Stephens from Beaver Dam) the road goes right past Sim place, however, Sim place proper is private and is gated off. It is gated from several spots where stephens rd runs along it. I have always been curious about that area but have never wanted to trespass. It is gated or posted at all roads that run to it. So I can't say what remains of sim place today, or what was there in the past considering that I havn't seen or read much about it really. I suppose it is possible to see the area by canoeing/kayaking up the oswego. The river is public I believe regardless of what property it crosses. I think Bob and probably Ed have done this. I have been meaning to do that. I guess Haines owns it now huh? Do you have info that it was actually a town at one time? I know in the '74 National Geographic there is a picture of Leroy Green, a resident of the "almost empy village of Sim Place" I thoght it was mostly a cranberry community, like hog wallow.
Jeff
FWIW, a couple months ago I was out with a friend in Penn State Forest around dusk and we noticed that the gate to Sim Place on Jenkins Road was open. I didn't notice any "no trespassing" sign there, so we ventured in and drove around a little. There was quite a bit of heavy earth moving equipment there which made for a very surreal landscape with the sunset colors in the sky and the moon rising over the bogs. But it certainly looked like they were growing cranberries and not engaged in some other form of conspiracy 
I haven't been back there recently, but this past winter that gate was open (at what I believe is the intersection of Jenkins and Warren Grove) just about every time I passed it:
http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ll=39.739963,-74.442115&spn=0.01881,0.03459&om=1
I haven't been back there recently, but this past winter that gate was open (at what I believe is the intersection of Jenkins and Warren Grove) just about every time I passed it:
http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ll=39.739963,-74.442115&spn=0.01881,0.03459&om=1