Steve Jobs Dead

Boyd

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There seems to be a dark side to Apple's spectacular performance in the marketplace, although I suspect this isn't much worse than other large companies that have factories in China...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/b...human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?_r=3&hp

Employees work excessive overtime, in some cases seven days a week, and live in crowded dorms. Some say they stand so long that their legs swell until they can hardly walk. Under-age workers have helped build Apple’s products, and the company’s suppliers have improperly disposed of hazardous waste and falsified records, according to company reports and advocacy groups that, within China, are often considered reliable, independent monitors.

More troubling, the groups say, is some suppliers’ disregard for workers’ health. Two years ago, 137 workers at an Apple supplier in eastern China were injured after they were ordered to use a poisonous chemical to clean iPhone screens. Within seven months last year, two explosions at iPad factories, including in Chengdu, killed four people and injured 77. Before those blasts, Apple had been alerted to hazardous conditions inside the Chengdu plant, according to a Chinese group that published that warning.
 

Teegate

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They are the only company who has admitted to these problems and is trying to stop it. The same article was out a few weeks ago by a different reporter, so why is another one bringing this up again.

Apple's problem is that they are doing well, and now they will experience the wrath of those who are jealous. Time for me to replace my Apple computer with a new Apple computer.

Guy
 

Teegate

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I am betting there are other corporations out there who are silently laughing at Apple's misfortune, all the while knowing that the same thing is happening in the plants that build their products. They just don't happen to be Apple who unfortunately is now the company to pick on, especially by the media.

Guy
 

Gibby

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It really has nothing to do with Apple, even thought the company is at the front of such news articles. It has do with how China treats its work force and what the country will do to make its GNP. The media needs a villian instead of a victim and what is better than a successful company. What I have to ask is - How horrible is it to be a Chinese worker, that catch nets are put up? Anyhow, articles like these won't change how I view Apple, which is in high regards. (A Mac Pro is my next purchase.;))
 

Boyd

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unfortunately is now the company to pick on, especially by the media.

Depends on what you consider "the media". If you follow the financial media such as the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, etc. then Apple is their darling that can do no wrong. And for good reason, considering how well they're performing and how widely owned their stock is. But I don't have the same warm fuzzy feeling about them that I had when I bought my first Apple ][ in 1978, or my first Mac in 1985. Any company as large as this deserves close scrutiny.

MK-BR880_APPLE_G_20120125200004.jpg


I don't really follow stories like this so I didn't see the previous one, Guy. I was a little shocked when I stumbled across this one. But frankly, I'm even more shocked about how large Apple has become. With income equal to the combined incomes of Microsoft, Google, Intel and Yahoo plus $98 billion in cash, it seems like they could afford to treat people a little better. And I'm sure they have plenty of resources to respond to any criticism the media dishes out.

Two guys starting a computer company in their garage and going on to become a huge success personifies the American Dream. A mega-corporation exploiting cheap foreign labor... not so much. Don't we have a thread around here somewhere called "Made in America"?

My MacBook Pro is starting to die I think. It overheats after being on for awhile and locks up. It's getting old, so it's about time to replace. I probably will, but hate to spend the money for the small amount of use it gets these days. My only real "must have" Apple program is Final Cut Pro.
 

Boyd

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Sorry, I'm not following you there. I have no idea what their charitable contributions are. If they gave a lot of money to charity, that's good. I'm sure they paid a lot of taxes. That's also good. Does that make it OK to exploit cheap foreign labor?

But I don't know if that article has any merit - Guy says that Apple has already addressed those issues. If so, then I'm sure they're perfectly capable of defending their actions and setting the record straight, considering their formidable PR and legal departments. On the other hand, the cynic in me says, when you have that much money you probably don't care a whole lot what anybody else thinks of you.
 

Boyd

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And how about their Federal taxes paid.

That reminds me of an article I read awhile ago: http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748704048804577082712227921128.html#articleTabs_article=2

As of that writing, Apple had a total of $81.6 billion total cash and investments. $54.3 billion was invested overseas and not subject to US tax. This is not unique to Apple however, as the article points out. Microsoft has $51 billion of their $56 billion overseas.

AMERICAN COMPANIES HAVE HUGE cash stashes overseas for several reasons. Some generate the money abroad and keep it there to fund local capital expenditures and acquisitions. Others establish foreign subsidiaries in low-tax locales. Above all, many companies have been reluctant to incur a repatriation tax that could climb as high as 35% when corporate cash is returned to the U.S.
 

bobpbx

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Sorry, I'm not following you there. I have no idea what their charitable contributions are.

Quite the opposite meant here Boyd. His charity-giving was shrouded in secrecy, and some claimed he was stingy, and shied away from giving. His defenders (and oh how I get so weary of them and their almost religious zeal) say his charity was that he made lives so much better through his products.
 

Boyd

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From today's issue of BARRONS. Here we have someone who is very supportive of Apple summing it up nicely: "I think the Times piece did what it should by raising awareness and, let's hope, putting Apple and its competitors on the spot."

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748704895604577178941793216900.html?mod=BOL_twm_col

Apple's triumphant quarter was followed by a New York Times article painting a truly awful picture of health and safety violations in the factories that build products for Apple and for other electronics companies, such as Dell (DELL). The article raised lots of questions. How much greater are the abuses that may arise making products for Apple than for Dell? We know the iPhone is a high-profit device, but what we know is compiled from estimates of the chips and screens used in them. We don't really know what Apple's labor cost is relative to competitors.

In some senses, Apple is just the face of a much broader phenomenon, blending our rapacious desire for cheap manufactured goods, the rapid rise of emerging markets and the still brutal nature of much of the workplace. (You need look no further than coal mines and offshore oil drilling for similar revelations.)

On Thursday, Cook reportedly issued a memorandum telling staff the company will not turn a blind eye to abuses at suppliers. I think the Times piece did what it should by raising awareness and, let's hope, putting Apple and its competitors on the spot. I think Apple will make steady progress in addressing the matter, and I don't expect the scandal will be a drag on its stock.
 

Boyd

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Thought I'd add a positive note about Apple, since I've been rather critical of them in this thread. My 2008 MacBook pro got to the point that I couldn't trust it, so I am now the happy owner of a 13" 1.7ghz MacBook Air with 4GB RAM and a 256GB flash drive. Apple still knows how to write good software and provide a great user experience; the transition to this new machine was smoother than any I have experienced before.

Plugged my Time Machine backup drive into the new computer and took a walk while it imported everything. Got back and it was ready to use. In the past, things "mostly" worked with this process, but this time I don't see any problems. Absolutely everything came through, all my programs. files, settings, e-mail, even the arrangement of files on my desktop.

I was concerned that some of my old (but expensive) software might not work, but it all seems OK - Final Cut Pro 6, Photoshop CS3, FileMaker Pro 11, VectorWorks 2008, Office 2008. It's not as powerful as some of the new MacBook Pro's but it runs circles around my 2008 MacBook Pro. And the flash drive is a huge performance increase over a spinning hard drive. All this in an incredibly thin and light package - very cool :cool:

I'm sure it will also run Windows 7 fast, based on what I've read, and I might install that eventually. But for now, I'm keeping as much free space as I can on the flash drive for editing some small HD video projects. My 2008 MacBook Pro cost $2500 and the MacBook Air cost $1500. If you don't need some of the more powerful software that I use, I think the 11" MacBook air would make a very nice little machine, and it will certainly run circles around a Windows netbook.

A few quick benchmarks - 2008 MacBook pro took 72 seconds to render a short HD video clip, new MacBook air took 42 seconds. Applying a photoshop filter to a 50MB TIFF file took 104 seconds on the 2008 machine and 26 seconds on the MacBook Air. Very pleased so far. :)
 

46er

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You should have bought a Dell

6gb memory, 1tb hard drive, 8 USB ports for portable memory, i5 3.0 GHz processor, $550 :D
 

Teegate

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Well said Boyd! There is NOTHING like bringing that Mac home.

Guy
 

Boyd

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You should have bought a Dell

I have nothing against Dell - I'm typing this on my Dell desktop. But the model you're talking about is nothing like the Macbook Air which weighs 3 lbs and has a solid state flash memory instead of a hard drive. Looking quickly at Dell's site, it is more similar to the XPS 14z Ultimate (http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-l412z/fs) which costs $1500, same as the MacBook air - but it weighs a pound more.

If you just want a cheap PC, I'm fine with that. But don't compare it to a ultralight state of the art machine. If you've never used a machine with a solid state disk (windows or mac), you may not appreciate what a huge difference that makes in performance. There have been a number of articles on "ultrabooks", which is what they now call this class of computers. These are high end machines and Apple's prices are not out of line with equivalent Windows machines - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Laptop-...97&s_kwcid=TC|8064|UltraBook||S|e|16193903719

Look at these prices - an Asus ultrabook with basically the same specs as my Macbook air is $1400. I had an Asus netbook for awhile and ended up returning it. It felt cheap all the way through - Apple is certainly worth a $100 premium just for build quality.

Guy - yes, Apple really "gets" the user experience part. Windows has come a long way, and frankly "good enough" for most things. But I don't think they will ever reach Apple's level of polish, if for no other reason than Apple controls everything from the hardware through the operating system and major apps.
 

46er

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Everyone has their favorites. I consider a computer an appliance, and after 37 years working with them I can't get overly excited about them; just that it be reliable and get the job done. Apple has built a sub-culture around what they produce, and that's fine, it helps to keep its shareholders happy.
 

Boyd

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Well we are obviously very different. I have over 20 years experience using high end creative applications for photorealistic 3d modelling, CAD, professional HD video and other things. You don't need those things, and that's fine. But the argument is a little like telling somebody that they should have gotten the mini-van instead of the sports car.

Mac or Windows - I have gotten beyond caring about the brand as long as it does the job. But the hardware won't be cheap on either platform for doing these things, although it sure has gotten a lot cheaper than it was in 2008. For my mapmaking, that's Windows all the way, and the Dell machine was a lot of bang for the buck when I got it a few years ago. I will probably upgrade that to another Dell next year.

Read back through this thread... I see both sides of the coin.
 

46er

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The majority of my time was spent on very large scale systems; Cray, IBM and the like, for modeling and research app's that could run for well over a week. Most fun were the modeling app's for a container shipping company. The rest was with a pharmaceutical company. I'm glad to be rid of all of it :) Now I just use the small stuff for personal use.

And there was a smiley at the end of my post :D
 
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