Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road
- Thread starter Teegate
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As I mentioned Jessica did not want to get anywhere near them. You have to understand she makes the decisions for the most part when it is time to turn back. If I was alone I could have easily got to them without being viewed, but when you are with someone who does not want to be confrontational you have to respect their wishes. I did just that.
Guy
Fully agree I meant more of a "planned " outing with this in mind then turn it over to the rangers ....
Basically, this area.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.75999965283415&lng=-74.66568231582642&z=17&type=h&gpx=
Guy
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.75999965283415&lng=-74.66568231582642&z=17&type=h&gpx=
Guy
You don't know if they are people you can reason with.
Or is the situation deliverance meets lord of the flies.
I have seen people do terrible things to other people back there.
Guy
Thanks it's a little far for me to go taking a walk to when I get there again this year. We tend to stay pretty close to the farm, at least we did this year.
Can't believe some of the comments at the end of the article
All,
While I was in the Hampton area today, I updated a "Then and Now" photo. This photo shows the road that led to the previous bridge over the Skit at Hampton Furnace. Basically, if you leave the ruins of the warehouse and head towards 1/4 mile and cross the bridge over the Skit, this road is on the right side of there. The little bridge that this road crossed was replaced by the present bridge around 1986 or 1987.
The left is 1979 and the right is today. You can see what erosion does.
http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/08212010/IMG_5313.jpg
Oh, and BTW, the photo on the left may be mirrored improperly. I am working on trying to find my slide so I can fix it. But basically you get the idea.
Guy
While I was in the Hampton area today, I updated a "Then and Now" photo. This photo shows the road that led to the previous bridge over the Skit at Hampton Furnace. Basically, if you leave the ruins of the warehouse and head towards 1/4 mile and cross the bridge over the Skit, this road is on the right side of there. The little bridge that this road crossed was replaced by the present bridge around 1986 or 1987.
The left is 1979 and the right is today. You can see what erosion does.
http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/08212010/IMG_5313.jpg
Oh, and BTW, the photo on the left may be mirrored improperly. I am working on trying to find my slide so I can fix it. But basically you get the idea.
Guy
Lots of video already taken and on UTube of the area referred to as 'the scar'. Seems these folks are proud of what they've done.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=1%2F4+mile+pine+barrens+nj&aq=f
The PPA's proposal to help solve the problem;
http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/downloads/pinelandsalliance_446.doc
Thanks 46er. For those who can't open the file I posted it below. It was released on 8/20/2010. I just hope they don't go after the average person who parks on the side of the road or drives on roads where no damage can occur. And the last line is an interesting one. With the Internet, the way to give a formal complaint has changed.
Guy
Comprehensive Plan to Address Illegal Class 1 Vehicle Traffic in the Pinelands
1. NJDEP should issue a policy directive similar to Commissioner Campbell’s directive in 2002 that off-road vehicle traffic (i.e., people deliberately driving in areas that are clearly not designated roads) will not be tolerated on state land.
2. NJDEP should also direct all law enforcement to strictly enforce state forest regulations, so that costs for damages to state-owned land can be recuperated from these offenders.
3. State park police and conservation officers should cite people when they find them clearly driving off the roads. The excuse that “someone drove there before, so it looks like road now,” clearly does not wash in many of these cases. The state park police need to address flagrant cases with citations.
4. Local judges need to agree to hit offenders with penalties stiff enough to function as deterrents.
5. The state park authorities should stop issuing special use permits for motorized events, unless the group, such as a Jeep club, can sign on to a plan that keeps the club members on the roads. Yes, there are places where it’s not clear what is a legal road and what is a renegade illegal ORV trail, but there are also plenty of places where that distinction is obvious.
6. The state park authorities should shut off access to damaged areas and close roads when conditions, such as inundation, contribute to the risk that such roads will continue to be damaged by specially equipped vehicles, making it impossible for the general public to travel these roads. If that means physically blocking the roads, then we can get volunteer help to accomplish that.
7. The Pinelands Commission should formally request that access to these damaged areas be shut off so the habitats can recover.
8. The NJ Motor Vehicle Commission should revise the state regulations to make sure that vehicles that are specifically equipped to drive through deep mud and water do not qualify as Cass 1.
9. Jeep club leaders and leaders of any other kind of ORV clubs need to educate their members, and rein in the illegal and irresponsible activities. Some of these Jeep clubs are doing good things, like annual organized cleanups, so let’s not paint everybody with the same brush, and let’s be willing to distinguish between the good and the bad things that the clubs are doing.
10. Law-abiding citizens who explore the Pinelands need to use their cameras and cell phones to document and report violations. If the state park police are tied up with something else, and can’t get to the scene, or don’t want to write a citation, then the citizens may need to write up a complaint.
Guy
Comprehensive Plan to Address Illegal Class 1 Vehicle Traffic in the Pinelands
1. NJDEP should issue a policy directive similar to Commissioner Campbell’s directive in 2002 that off-road vehicle traffic (i.e., people deliberately driving in areas that are clearly not designated roads) will not be tolerated on state land.
2. NJDEP should also direct all law enforcement to strictly enforce state forest regulations, so that costs for damages to state-owned land can be recuperated from these offenders.
3. State park police and conservation officers should cite people when they find them clearly driving off the roads. The excuse that “someone drove there before, so it looks like road now,” clearly does not wash in many of these cases. The state park police need to address flagrant cases with citations.
4. Local judges need to agree to hit offenders with penalties stiff enough to function as deterrents.
5. The state park authorities should stop issuing special use permits for motorized events, unless the group, such as a Jeep club, can sign on to a plan that keeps the club members on the roads. Yes, there are places where it’s not clear what is a legal road and what is a renegade illegal ORV trail, but there are also plenty of places where that distinction is obvious.
6. The state park authorities should shut off access to damaged areas and close roads when conditions, such as inundation, contribute to the risk that such roads will continue to be damaged by specially equipped vehicles, making it impossible for the general public to travel these roads. If that means physically blocking the roads, then we can get volunteer help to accomplish that.
7. The Pinelands Commission should formally request that access to these damaged areas be shut off so the habitats can recover.
8. The NJ Motor Vehicle Commission should revise the state regulations to make sure that vehicles that are specifically equipped to drive through deep mud and water do not qualify as Cass 1.
9. Jeep club leaders and leaders of any other kind of ORV clubs need to educate their members, and rein in the illegal and irresponsible activities. Some of these Jeep clubs are doing good things, like annual organized cleanups, so let’s not paint everybody with the same brush, and let’s be willing to distinguish between the good and the bad things that the clubs are doing.
10. Law-abiding citizens who explore the Pinelands need to use their cameras and cell phones to document and report violations. If the state park police are tied up with something else, and can’t get to the scene, or don’t want to write a citation, then the citizens may need to write up a complaint.
The first thing they need to do is cancel the Oct Jeep Jamboree in Wharton.
This so called "tread lightly" crowd does no such thing.
There are many You Tube videos of them at the Scar.
This so called "tread lightly" crowd does no such thing.
There are many You Tube videos of them at the Scar.
Went back this morning, fire still warm from the day before.
Many recent tracks.
Heard motor cycles and 4 wheelers in 1/4 mile bog.
Did not go any close.r
On way out passed 2 monster trucks with 40 inch wheels and snorkles.
Reported it to Atsion Office, they called Park Police.
Hope something happened.
Many recent tracks.
Heard motor cycles and 4 wheelers in 1/4 mile bog.
Did not go any close.r
On way out passed 2 monster trucks with 40 inch wheels and snorkles.
Reported it to Atsion Office, they called Park Police.
Hope something happened.
Vernal Pools and Their Importance
And why whats happening at the scar is bad
Below is a photograph the the eroded wetlands along the side of the scar, near the bon fire site.
Look carefully and your can see a thin layer or lens of clay, which acted sort of like a pool liner and allowed the vernal pools to hold water during the spring months. These pools provided habitat for the many amphibians that need these fish free, temporary pools to reproduce. Now that the liner has been destroyed by 4 wheelers, these pools may drain to quickly to allow the frogs and salamanders that use them to successfully reproduce. Frogs that I have heard and observed at this site includes the southern leopard frog, green frog, cricket frog, carpenter frog and the rare Pine Barrens tree frog.
Click on photo for larger version
NJDEP INFO
What Are Vernal Pools?
Vernal pools are confined wetland depressions, either natural or man-made, that hold water for at least two consecutive months out of the year and are devoid of breeding fish populations. Here in New Jersey, rural portions of the Skylands, Piedmont, and Coastal Plain landscapes are home to the majority of our vernal pools. These unique ecosystems provide habitat to many species of amphibians, insects, reptiles, plants, and other wildlife.
Vernal pools come in an array of forms: isolated depressions within upland forests, seasonally flooded meadows, floodplain swamps, abandoned gravel pits or quarries, and even derelict swimming pools. However, no matter what the structure or genesis of the pool is, all vernal pools either dry out completely or draw down to very shallow levels unsuitable for sustaining fish. Fish are highly predatory on amphibian eggs and larvae. Over the course of evolution, several species of salamanders and frogs exploited these fish-less water bodies. Today, these species exhibit "hard-wired" instincts and behaviors that are geared exclusively towards fish-free vernal habitats.
Amphibians that are dependent upon vernal pools are known as "obligate vernal pool breeders." In New Jersey there are seven species - two frogs and five salamanders - that fit this category. Another 14 of New Jersey's amphibians also use vernal pools for breeding, but unlike the 'obligate' species, these species can successfully reproduce in habitats that contain fish. These species are known as "facultative vernal pool breeders."
Source: New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
And why whats happening at the scar is bad
Below is a photograph the the eroded wetlands along the side of the scar, near the bon fire site.
Look carefully and your can see a thin layer or lens of clay, which acted sort of like a pool liner and allowed the vernal pools to hold water during the spring months. These pools provided habitat for the many amphibians that need these fish free, temporary pools to reproduce. Now that the liner has been destroyed by 4 wheelers, these pools may drain to quickly to allow the frogs and salamanders that use them to successfully reproduce. Frogs that I have heard and observed at this site includes the southern leopard frog, green frog, cricket frog, carpenter frog and the rare Pine Barrens tree frog.
Click on photo for larger version
NJDEP INFO
What Are Vernal Pools?
Vernal pools are confined wetland depressions, either natural or man-made, that hold water for at least two consecutive months out of the year and are devoid of breeding fish populations. Here in New Jersey, rural portions of the Skylands, Piedmont, and Coastal Plain landscapes are home to the majority of our vernal pools. These unique ecosystems provide habitat to many species of amphibians, insects, reptiles, plants, and other wildlife.
Vernal pools come in an array of forms: isolated depressions within upland forests, seasonally flooded meadows, floodplain swamps, abandoned gravel pits or quarries, and even derelict swimming pools. However, no matter what the structure or genesis of the pool is, all vernal pools either dry out completely or draw down to very shallow levels unsuitable for sustaining fish. Fish are highly predatory on amphibian eggs and larvae. Over the course of evolution, several species of salamanders and frogs exploited these fish-less water bodies. Today, these species exhibit "hard-wired" instincts and behaviors that are geared exclusively towards fish-free vernal habitats.
Amphibians that are dependent upon vernal pools are known as "obligate vernal pool breeders." In New Jersey there are seven species - two frogs and five salamanders - that fit this category. Another 14 of New Jersey's amphibians also use vernal pools for breeding, but unlike the 'obligate' species, these species can successfully reproduce in habitats that contain fish. These species are known as "facultative vernal pool breeders."
Source: New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
Guy, what's the best way to file a complaint? Getting law enforcement out there often enough to really address the problem is probably a long shot. I really think we need to get photos and file these complaints.
After thinking about this a little more over the weekend I got looking into reality. I have tried to get the "trail system" thing done before in the past, I have basically been told by higher ups it will never happen. Second, in order to make the fines higher it needs to be passed, with the way the government moves it will be 2014 before that would happen. Third, what rule are they breaking, unless you find them in a fresh cut threw the swamp. There is no exact designated trail system to say when you are off the established trail unless it's blatently obvious. As it states now, as long as I have a street legal vehicle, which could be up to a 38" tire (actual measurement), not drinking, not having a fire, and not driving threw a grassy area, there is no ticket that can be written that would hold up in court. NJ government is just as much to blame as the people who shread the area up. Last but not least THERE NEEDS TO BE A LEGAL PLACE TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!! If not, people will move on to the next spot and shread an area that is as of now in pristine condition. As woodjn has mentioned there are abandoned sand mines out there. Old Halfway(AKA: Hidden Lakes), Murphys Pit, Etc. that would not take anywhere near as much of an ecological hit as the areas with black mud. As of now there is no where to go and 1000s of mud dedicated vehicles in this state. Noone is going to just stop, I know I'm sure the hell not going to. My situation is a little different because 90% of my wheeling takes place on private property that I have permission to be on. I don't care what anyone says, thinks, or dreams of, there is no stopping it....period!!!!! I am willing to bet money on it, I'm not talking hundreds I'm talking thousands, that if this spot gets blocked off, one of two things or possibly both will happen A) trees will get plowed over by people going around the blockades. I know for a fact that a fullsize pickup with good traction and a good bumper will take out any 8" tree out there. ( Iwas young and dumb at one time too). B) People will move on to the next Vernal Pool or Spung and shread that apart. What would yous rather have? People shreading an area that is already destroyed? People going and tearing apart every Vernal Pool/Spung they see? People going to and abandoned sand mine with clay mud???? One of the three is going to happen no matter what. Now we can all dream as much as we want, but it's time to wake up and smell the coffee because this is the sad reality folks. I'm 100% up for legal wheeling, I promote harder than most 4x4 guys do, but there has to be somewhere to go. Sorry if I piss anyone up but it's got to get told as it is and I feel I'm the person to do that
Give the number listed above a call; they will give you the proper procedure to file the complaint. I've done it when the ORV's were using the Greenwood WMA quail management area. I would see them on Sundays and when hunting on Saturdays after stocking ended in January and early February. They would bring loads in on flatbeds to the back lot and tear around within the boundary. It got stopped; this was a few years back and I haven't seen them since. The system does work if folks use it.
If the PPA gets more actively involved, and it appears they are, I think getting more enforcement out there wil happen. With the Autumn events starting soon, perhaps the PPA can have pictures and videos showing what is happening available at their booth and petitions for more enforcement for folks to sign. IMO, the more exposure this problem gets the better the chance of some solution and having the organized clubs become more proactive certainly would be a big help.
http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/protection/work/currentissues/offroadvehicles/
Call or report them to the Atsion Office.
I did and they called the park police.
Or call the Batsto office 609-567-0024
The big problem is that almost all places where people want to mud are wet and by a regulatory definition, are wetlands and are subject to State/Fed wetlands regulations. Especially in the Pinelands.
http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/protection/work/currentissues/offroadvehicles/
I wish I could support them. For most of the comments I agree, then I see the comment against ORV parks. I keep hearing crap like this it will put an end to my days backing these guys up. We need people to work hand in hand or it will just be ongoing fight. It will get uglier and uglier. I see more booby traps etc. I will be the first to admit that if I EVER see someone booby trapping(littering) a public legal area I will be facing assault charges. If people could just give a little on both sides, the Pines would be a whole hell of a lot better place.
I wish I could support them. For most of the comments I agree, then I see the comment against ORV parks. I keep hearing crap like this it will put an end to my days backing these guys up. We need people to work hand in hand or it will just be ongoing fight. It will get uglier and uglier. I see more booby traps etc. I will be the first to admit that if I EVER see someone booby trapping(littering) a public legal area I will be facing assault charges. If people could just give a little on both sides, the Pines would be a whole hell of a lot better place.
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