The end of Garmin Basecamp

Discussion in 'Electronics Insanity' started by Boyd, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. 46er

    46er Piney

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    They are probably sparkly clean now, since they have all been closed for some time. Then again the first user after they are re-opened may need a respirator. ;)
     
  2. enormiss

    enormiss Explorer

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    I've been using the HERE app on my phones for awhile as a driving GPS, recently renamed it to HERE WeGo.
    Maps are downloadable (by state if you prefer to save space) allowing you to navigate offline without mobile data.
    It's well worth the price (free) LoL
     
  3. amf

    amf Explorer

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    From past experience with them, unless its changed Garmin's definition of lifetime is definitely what it sounds like...
     
  4. 46er

    46er Piney

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    It could mean; the purchasers lifetime, the units lifetime, the Birdseye product lifetime or Garmin's lifetime. :worms:
     
  5. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    The lifetime Birdseye product is new and I have not seen any specific terms and conditions. But their policy on lifetime City Navigator maps is well known:

    https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/lmdisclaimer

    "you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available on Garmin.com during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier, whichever is shorter. A product’s “useful life” means the period during which the product (a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data and (b) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs. A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more."

    There was a lot of hang-wringing about this in the past, but I don't recall any credible examples of Garmin pulling support for map updates. So, I think that language is largely "CYA" from their legal department. ;)

    I can say from personal experience, that they did not cancel my lifetime maps when I waited more than two years between updates on two of my devices. I am also unaware of anyone who stopped receiving updates because they had exceeded the "useful life" of their GPS. Have never seen an example of them pulling updates because the map supplier changed either (because it hasn't changed).

    I can think of one vocal individual who claimed they did this with a subscription he bought for a GPS that is at least 15 years old. Then later, the same person said he could download updates again. If anyone here has experienced Garmin refusing to honor a lifetime subscription, I'd like to hear about it.

    AFAIK, you cannot purchase a lifetime maps subscription seprately anymore. In the past, there was a way to get a lfietime subscription if you purchased City Navigator maps on DVD, but Garmin doesn't sell maps on DVD anymore. All of their automotive devices include lifetime subscriptions now. You might be able to purchase a subscription if you had an old automotive device that did not originally include lifetime maps (although that would make no sense). But that subscription would be an update to the maps that were pre-installed on the GPS, as opposed to a map that you purchased separately.

    Garmin only sells maps as downloads or micro-SD cards with a pre-instlaled map now. Neither of these products is eligible for updates. You have to just buy a whole new map if you want a newer version now. Garmin has never offered any form of updates for their topo map products, and does not update them very often.

    With Birdseye, a normal subscription only lasts a year, but you can download all you want during that time and it never expires (you can continue using it after the subscription ends). It is, however, locked to the original GPS for which it was purchased. I read a report from a new owner of a GPSMap 66, and although you are supposed to be able to download Birdseye directly to the device (with wifi) forever, he said in Basecamp that it claimed his subscription was for only one year. That's probably just because the lifetime Birdseye thing is new, and because Basecamp is not being updated. So it's possible that he will only be able to download with Birdseye for a year, but will still be able to download on the GPS afterwards.
     
    #45 Boyd, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  6. GermanG

    GermanG Piney

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    I've been following all of this, attempting to see how it might affect the GPS purchase I've been considering as a more weather resistant alternative to my phone. I've been fairly GPS-illiterate up to this point, getting by as much as I can with a paper copy of a topo map in my pocket and the Silva Ranger I've had for close to 40 years. No bugs, no updates. As a back-up, I occasionally refer to the simple map app on my phone to see where I am on an aerial. I don't require much more than that for my needs. I've always found accomplishing tasks with older tools and methods both more rewarding and relaxing, which is why I chase deer with a Hawken rifle rather than a shotgun and prefer my wooden molding planes over my router. This thread isn't doing much to bring me over to the dark side! ;)
     
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  7. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    Which side is the "dark side"?

    If your paper map is a USGS topo, they are getting pretty old. I created "1999 in the Pines" from the newest quads I could find - see the dates below. I really love these old maps and used them myself for many years, but it's nice to supplement them with some newer imagery also.

    https://boydsmaps.com/1999-in-the-pines/

    1999coverage.png

    Why not just get a rugged case for your phone? I have an Otterbox case, but only use it if I'm going out in the rain, or somewhere where I'm concerned about dropping it, etc. There are also rugged cases with batteries that can extend your run time, and will still be cheaper than a Garmin GPS.

    Then it's just a question of what app to choose, there are many options for both iOS and Android and almost all of them have free trials so you can evaluate them. You install my maps directly on your phone, so they work with no cell service. They work with free open source software on your computer - no need to use any Garmin products. And they support all of these apps

    [​IMG]
     
  8. 46er

    46er Piney

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    I like the paper as well, have a GPS but rarely ever use it, will probably be donated to one of my sons. I use the delorme atlas & gazetteer map books, if a state has one that I visit I'll get it. The local state books I have are getting a bit dogeared. Also have specific topo's for several of the national parks we've visited. Never could get used to the small screens compared to the ample sized delorme books.
    Just set in my ways. upload_2019-1-6_18-28-10.gif
     
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  9. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
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    That, my friend, is one of the most despicable acts by Garmin of all. It is scandalous. I can see some 4-eyed, pointy-headed corporate guy announcing to his managers "Let's make people pay for a new subscription to Birdseye every time they upgrade to another GPS, regardless of whether they bought the subscription already that same year or not. We'll make a killing!" Frankly, the head offices mucky-mucks should be tarred and feathered and whipped out of town for that. In my mind, they went from a pretty good company to one that just wants to bleed us and empty our pockets.
     
  10. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    Bob, that is nothing new, Birdseye has always been that way. I am certainly not going to defend Garmin's policy. You're the one who has argued that a Garmin GPS is better than using a smartphone in fact. ;) Garmin is now essentially a monopoly, since nobody else makes handheld GPS units. But this policy has very old roots.

    For a little history... Garmin's "crown jewels" have always been the City Navigator map and from the very beginning (more than 20 years ago) it was always very expensive, and was always locked to a specific GPS device. In the old days, it was distributed on CD's and you were provided two "unlock codes" for installation on two GPS devices. If you lost or broke those devices, then the map was useless and needed to be re-purchased for a new one. Later (maybe 10 years ago?) Garmin changed the policy and only provided one unlock code.

    The DVD version of Garmin's topo maps were not locked however, and you could install them on any GPS. The downloadable topo maps have always been locked. And the topo maps they sell on SD cards are also locked, however the card will work in any GPS (but cannot be duplicated). Garmin discontinued all their DVD products about 3 years ago, so today, every Garmin map is locked.

    I can't get too worked up about Birdseye policy myself. It costs $30 to subscribe. This gives you 12 months of access, but there is no limit to how much you can download. My subscription expired many years ago, but I was able to download all of NJ in the first year. These files will continue working after the subscription ends, but only on the original GPS. If you get a new GPS, you can still use all the files you downloaded, but will have to purchase a new subscription for $30. You can then re-authorize the files to work on your new GPS.

    And I think that Garmin now includes a free one-year BIrdseye subscription with all their new GPS units (or at least they do with most models). So this should allow you to migrate your existing imagery to a new GPS without paying anything extra.

    TL;DR - bottom line is, don't buy a Garmin GPS (and don't recommend them) if you don't like their policies. :clint:
     
  11. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    Just had a look on their website. The new Oregon and Montana models include free one year Birdseye subscriptions. The GPSMap66 includes a lifetime Birdseye subscription. But the eTrex and Rino do not include any BIrdseye subscription.
     
  12. 46er

    46er Piney

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    Marketing, gotta love the folks that follow that calling ;) I see a strong similarity to those that market digital camera's :)
     
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  13. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    At least there are several companies that still make digital cameras. :)

    But Garmin has always been the master of marketing. In the past there were a dizzying array of different models (not so much today) at different price points. Mostly, the hardware was the same but the firmware crippled the inexpensive versions. And they strategically removed some of the most useful features from the cheap ones. So the result was, people would buy the cheap one to save money, then when they realized it didn't do what they wanted they would buy the expensive one later. So Garmin ended up selling them two devices instead of just one. :bang:
     
  14. 46er

    46er Piney

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    They tack on so many bells and whistles to hook folks. Most use only a small percentage of the features on both. Market a basic model that does those basic things well. My CP995 still takes great pictures as does my D750, but at a different level. I use maybe 5% of the D750 features. Bit by the marketing bug. But it will be the last time. I think.

    https://cameraville.co/blog/the-chef-and-the-photographer
     
  15. Pan

    Pan Explorer

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    Oh man I'm always having problems with Garmin trying to obsolete me and my 15 year old Garmin 276c. I started using their gps's back before hardly anyone knew what GPS was, with pre map Garmin model 2 (when that one broke they sent me the model 2+ for free - they were real nice in their early days). If I switch to HERE or something using my Android tablet is there any way to get my Garmin waypoints on it?
     
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  16. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    You can use either Basecamp or Mapsource to save your waypoints as a .gpx file. This is a common format for sharing data between different software. Not sure about whether the Here app (which is primarily an automotive app) can import waypoints though, look at their docs. But I think most apps that can be used in place of a handheld GPS can import waypoints (Galileo, Backcountry Navigator, Orux Maps, Locus Map and many others).
     
  17. Pan

    Pan Explorer

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    Thanks, Boyd!
     
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  18. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
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    Nice to see you posting on the site again! :cool:
     
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