That is just an awesome sighting fellas! I appreciate a nice, big, beautiful tree as much as anything. The Cedar is is just amazing. Thanks for sharing.
The "Mutha" of all cedars.
- Thread starter BEHR655
- Start date
The Mutha gets academic
This morning I took George Zimmermann (environmental studies professor at Stockton Collage and Atlantic White Cedar expert) and George Pierceson (retired Stockton college professor and former forester for the state) to see the Mutha, and support my measurements. Interestingly my measurements were surprisingly accurate despite my lack of professional instruments. Here are the final measurements:
Height: 57' 1/2"
crown: 31'
Circumference: 9' 6"
The overall size of the tree is a combination of these measurments. George Pierceson confirmed that it is definitely a contender for the biggest. I will have to see when I supply this info to my contact with the State Big Tree Program. Either way, a fact is a fact and 57 1/2' + 31'+ 9.6' = ONE BIG MUTHA!!
George Zimmermann attempted to take a core sample but this proved unsuccessful because of problems with the core extractor. He will return to get an accurate sample. He estimates it to be approx. 150 years old. Which is not as old as we had guessed but George arrives at this estimate based off of ample water supply and a quick growth rate. George knows wayyyyy more about cedars than we will ever know. George was very generous with sharing his vast knowlege on the subject, of which I am very grateful. He is clearly very enthusiastic about his discipline, which is always very refreashing from a professional. It was pleasure to have met George Pierceson as well, another enthusiastic scholar.
Below are a few pics of George Zimmermann attempting a core extraction. Hmmm, I can't upload right now. as soon I can I will post them.
Jeff
This morning I took George Zimmermann (environmental studies professor at Stockton Collage and Atlantic White Cedar expert) and George Pierceson (retired Stockton college professor and former forester for the state) to see the Mutha, and support my measurements. Interestingly my measurements were surprisingly accurate despite my lack of professional instruments. Here are the final measurements:
Height: 57' 1/2"
crown: 31'
Circumference: 9' 6"
The overall size of the tree is a combination of these measurments. George Pierceson confirmed that it is definitely a contender for the biggest. I will have to see when I supply this info to my contact with the State Big Tree Program. Either way, a fact is a fact and 57 1/2' + 31'+ 9.6' = ONE BIG MUTHA!!
George Zimmermann attempted to take a core sample but this proved unsuccessful because of problems with the core extractor. He will return to get an accurate sample. He estimates it to be approx. 150 years old. Which is not as old as we had guessed but George arrives at this estimate based off of ample water supply and a quick growth rate. George knows wayyyyy more about cedars than we will ever know. George was very generous with sharing his vast knowlege on the subject, of which I am very grateful. He is clearly very enthusiastic about his discipline, which is always very refreashing from a professional. It was pleasure to have met George Pierceson as well, another enthusiastic scholar.
Below are a few pics of George Zimmermann attempting a core extraction. Hmmm, I can't upload right now. as soon I can I will post them.
Jeff
That reminds me Jeff. Check out the book at this site (big trees):
http://www.nj.gov/dep/parksandforests/forest/materials.htm
http://www.nj.gov/dep/parksandforests/forest/materials.htm
mutha
i know it is in the interest of science, but i have a better idea, just leave the cedar be, why open it up to the possibility of some sort of infestation or disease by boring into the core, it is a magnifacent tree ,if it is in fact 150 years old then that means it started growing in 1856,now that puts it in perspective. thats just my thoughts on the subject ,carry on
i know it is in the interest of science, but i have a better idea, just leave the cedar be, why open it up to the possibility of some sort of infestation or disease by boring into the core, it is a magnifacent tree ,if it is in fact 150 years old then that means it started growing in 1856,now that puts it in perspective. thats just my thoughts on the subject ,carry on
I understand your concern Tom. But I'm thinking that the shear weight of the wood above the bore will compress the borehole down to nothing in a flash. An insect would die right away. Also, cedars are know for resistance to insect infestation. Jeff loves that tree. I'm sure he wouldn't have let them open 'er up if he wasn't convinced it would be harmless.
Not for nothin' all, I ain't no tree expert, 'cept I like for Cedars.From what I do know,I think you're gonna find that ol' bugger's quite a bit more than one-five-O'.
G.
G.
I wouldn't be concerned about the bore. It is less than 1/4 inch around. I was concerned about it till I met George. I didn't need to ask. When I saw the thing it was obvious that it would not damage the tree. We will know the actual age once a successful bore is taken. George could possibly be one of the leading Atlantic White Cedar experts in the world. He is very interested in these trees and would never do anything to endanger it.
BTW, as we were taking the core sample, George commented that he was surprised we never hit a dead spot. Most cedars this size have heart rot. This one doesn't. In other words, this one has alot of life left. It is very healthy. However, several limbs had come down as a result of the very heavy snow we had not long ago.
Jeff
BTW, as we were taking the core sample, George commented that he was surprised we never hit a dead spot. Most cedars this size have heart rot. This one doesn't. In other words, this one has alot of life left. It is very healthy. However, several limbs had come down as a result of the very heavy snow we had not long ago.
Jeff
bobpbx said:
Yeah Bob, I have seen that photo. Looks huge doesn't it. Maybe the other side is real skinny, giving it a lower circumference. Maybe that tree isn't around anymore.
Jeff
woodjin said:
I'm pretty certain the tree in the photo on the cover is a red cedar Jeff. Not to worry. Your record is safe from that one.
bobpbx said:
You know, I was wondering that but I couldn't tell from the photo. What do you see in that photo that tells you that Bob?
TeeGate said:
The wood didn't slide through the center of the bore correctly. Why exactly I don't know. George said he had another that would work. He thought of trying again but thought it best to not risk another bore hole and to just hold off till he got the better instrument. I suspect he will contact me about going back, I don't know. I didn't see him take a GPS coord. I did tell them the name and they laughed. Interestingly, George named a large cedar he found "Big Mama", so I guess there is a common theme that occurs to people when nameing large cedars.LOL.
Cool shots of that Cedar. I just ordered that big tree book actually. But I guess until some trees get registered as "large trees" we'll just have to assume the most current list has the largest trees recorded on it. On that same NJ Forestry page there is a form there for filling out a large tree entry. Thanks for the trip report guys!
Was curious if it ever got registered with the State Big Tree Program and if it was the record or not? also did the guy come back and get the core smaple providing age?
By 1720, it was Reported that all Good Timber was cut from NJ!
Jeff,
The tree shown on the current big-tree list cover was a photo of a 21' 11" Baldcypress (Taxodium disticum) at Hancock Bridge, Cumberland County. According to the latest listing of New Jersey’s Big Trees (Johnson c.1998), the largest Atlantic Whitecedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) was 9’ 2” circumference-breast-height (CBH). It was reported by Dave Finley as residing in Bass River State Forest, approximately 3-miles from the office.
Steward of the big-tree list, Forester Dave Johnson, indicates there are several possible rivals to the Bass River champion reported, all too remote (i.e., poorly located) to substantiate. Johnson relays that, if provided a decent GPS location, he will gladly substantiate “The Mutha” for inclusion on the next list.
I remember two behemoths from childhood ramblings, one along Deep Run somewhere near Horse-Break Pond and a second near the upper drainage of the Tuckahoe River, somewhere to the west of Grassy Pond. Places like Mauricetown's Yock-Wock Swamp and Dennisville’s Great Swamp were loaded with even larger buried cedar-logs, which were mined until the 1930s (See Weiss and Weiss 1965: 1-24, Some Early Industries of New Jersey [Cedar Mining, Tar, Pitch, Turpentine, Salt Hay]).
Jeff,
The tree shown on the current big-tree list cover was a photo of a 21' 11" Baldcypress (Taxodium disticum) at Hancock Bridge, Cumberland County. According to the latest listing of New Jersey’s Big Trees (Johnson c.1998), the largest Atlantic Whitecedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) was 9’ 2” circumference-breast-height (CBH). It was reported by Dave Finley as residing in Bass River State Forest, approximately 3-miles from the office.
Steward of the big-tree list, Forester Dave Johnson, indicates there are several possible rivals to the Bass River champion reported, all too remote (i.e., poorly located) to substantiate. Johnson relays that, if provided a decent GPS location, he will gladly substantiate “The Mutha” for inclusion on the next list.
I remember two behemoths from childhood ramblings, one along Deep Run somewhere near Horse-Break Pond and a second near the upper drainage of the Tuckahoe River, somewhere to the west of Grassy Pond. Places like Mauricetown's Yock-Wock Swamp and Dennisville’s Great Swamp were loaded with even larger buried cedar-logs, which were mined until the 1930s (See Weiss and Weiss 1965: 1-24, Some Early Industries of New Jersey [Cedar Mining, Tar, Pitch, Turpentine, Salt Hay]).
Figure 1 A cover picture from an earlier List of New Jersey’s Biggest Trees showing a sizable Chamaecyparis thyoides which wind-fell November 1950. If remembered correctly, the cedar’s top was long-broken making its wood quality too poor for lumber-use, sparing it from cutter’s ax.