The "Mutha" of all cedars.

[Teegate]

Was curious if it ever got registered with the State Big Tree Program and if it was the record or not? also did the guy come back and get the core smaple providing age?

Okay, I was not sure what you were asking. I am not sure if Jeff knows that info and I am sure he will get back to us on it. Sorry for my confusion.

Guy

 

[Jerseyman]

Places like Mauricetown's Yock-Wock Swamp and Dennisville’s Great Swamp were loaded with even larger buried cedar-logs, which were mined until the 1930s (See Weiss and Weiss 1965: 1-24, Some Early Industries of New Jersey [Cedar Mining, Tar, Pitch, Turpentine, Salt Hay

In addition to the sources you cite above, Spungman, you can also look at several threads on cedar mining right here on the forums, including this one:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/showthread.php?t=5202

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[Spung-Man]

A tree to remember Joyce Kilmer by…

Thanks Jerseyman. There’s so much material left to explore at NJPineBarrens, and I must do a better job of running its labyrinth!

Atlantic Whitecedar rarely retain lower branches. In most cases cedars self-prune lower limbs during their competitive race to the top of forest canopy (i.e., cladoptosis). Mutha’s branch arrangement indicates the Nixon Branch site must have been quite open, savannah-like terrain for many years. Its bole is riddled with large branch knots, a fortuitous trait since low timber-value likely accounts for the tree’s long-term survival.

An old nurseryman’s trick is to leave low branches on shade trees, which artificially fattens them up for sale. Tree-flairs quickly widen on low-branched specimens, but tree height is usually compromised in the process. Shade trees are sold by trunk caliper. So-fattened trees take less time to reach a specified caliper, but end up looking squat. I suspect Mutha’s age is not as great as its trunk diameter would suggest due to this physiological effect.

Spung-Man

 

[bobpbx]

Hmmm, I wonder if the name Southern White Cedar was used often back then. I never heard that name before. I also wonder if me and the PBX Boys can find the stump of that former giant. Very interesting Mark, thanks for posting that.

 

[bobpbx]

I suspect Mutha’s age is not as great as its trunk diameter would suggest due to this physiological effect.
Spung-Man

And so it follows that the Nixon Branch one may also have a younger age than thought due to the numbers of large branch knots? Or were you only speaking of the Mutha in that paragraph.

??

 

[Spung-Man]

Age Estimation

It was mentioned on the other site that a tree this size is estimated to be 300 years old, making it a sapling in early 1700, perhaps even late 1600's. That is astounding.

Bob,

I’m sorry for any confusion. I was primarily concerned with providing an age-estimation for your tree. In addition its low branch-clothing indicates the surroundings had to be sparsely vegetated, at minimum, for the entire life of the tree. The tree’s ample girth may be age-deceptive. Age-estimations by standard trunk-diameter formulas are problematic since Mutha is an unusual cedar specimen. This tree deviates from the normal cedar since: 1) its trunk-flair is exaggerated by an atypical branch arrangement; and 2) it grew out in the open receiving much greater sunlight exposure than would a typical forest-grown tree.

The only food a tree gets is from sunlight, its energy derived from carbohydrates manufactured during photosynthesis. Double the available sunlight, and you could theoretically double the tree’s food-producing potential. Fertilizer is not plant food, but is technically just plant vitamins.

Along the East Coast, southern whitecedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) is common from South Carolina to southern Maine. Its counterpart, northern whitecedar (a.k.a. eastern arborvitae or Thuja occidentalis) ranges from New York to Newfoundland. Neither are true cedars (Cedrus) hence their common names are better written as "whitecedar" and not "white cedar" to avoid confusion with true cedar.



Best,
Spung-Man

 

[bobpbx]

Along the East Coast, southern whitecedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) is common from South Carolina to southern Maine. Its counterpart, northern whitecedar (a.k.a. eastern arborvitae or Thuja occidentalis) ranges from New York to Newfoundland. Neither are true cedars (Cedrus) hence their common names are better written as "whitecedar" and not "white cedar" to avoid confusion with true cedar. Spung-Man

Mark, (also and primarily) in regards to the name, I was thinking of the most common name I have heard..."Atlantic White Cedar". I have not heard Southern White Cedar before that photo.

 

[Spung-Man]

You Say Tomato...

I have not heard Southern White Cedar before that photo.

You are right, southern white cedar is today almost obsolete. I still hear it employed in lumber context, but rarely in botanical context. A quick review of several old texts produced: 1) white-cedar false-cypress; 2) swamp-cedar; 3) white cedar; 4) juniper; and 5) post cedar. Attached is the cover of a 1931 Atlantic whitecedar monograph preferentially using "southern white cedar."

Spung

 

[woodjin]

Was curious if it ever got registered with the State Big Tree Program and if it was the record or not? also did the guy come back and get the core smaple providing age?

Dave,
I reported it to the Big Tree Program but G. Zimmermann was going to substantiate my findings with the program. I kept in touch with George for a while but I cannot recall now if he retrieved the core sample or reported it for me. I think I made another attempt with the program but became frustrated. You know, I think I submitted a form with all the proper measurements, taken according to their guidelines, but did not hear back.

I think I was expecting a parade in my honor and gave up when that didn't happen.

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Jeff,

The tree shown on the current big-tree list cover was a photo of a 21' 11" Baldcypress (Taxodium disticum) at Hancock Bridge, Cumberland County. According to the latest listing of New Jersey’s Big Trees (Johnson c.1998), the largest Atlantic Whitecedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) was 9’ 2” circumference-breast-height (CBH). It was reported by Dave Finley as residing in Bass River State Forest, approximately 3-miles from the office.

Steward of the big-tree list, Forester Dave Johnson, indicates there are several possible rivals to the Bass River champion reported, all too remote (i.e., poorly located) to substantiate. Johnson relays that, if provided a decent GPS location, he will gladly substantiate “The Mutha” for inclusion on the next list.

I remember two behemoths from childhood ramblings, one along Deep Run somewhere near Horse-Break Pond and a second near the upper drainage of the Tuckahoe River, somewhere to the west of Grassy Pond. Places like Mauricetown's Yock-Wock Swamp and Dennisville’s Great Swamp were loaded with even larger buried cedar-logs, which were mined until the 1930s (See Weiss and Weiss 1965: 1-24, Some Early Industries of New Jersey [Cedar Mining, Tar, Pitch, Turpentine, Salt Hay]).

View attachment 1395
​

Figure 1 A cover picture from an earlier List of New Jersey’s Biggest Trees showing a sizable Chamaecyparis thyoides which wind-fell November 1950. If remembered correctly, the cedar’s top was long-broken making its wood quality too poor for lumber-use, sparing it from cutter’s ax.​

Mark,
Yes please give the information to Dave Johnson. I would appreciate that. The Mutha is larger than this tree in Bass River in circumfrance according to the size you mentioned. It is not just the circumfrance, but the canopy and height that is considered as well in the program.

I recall seeing that photo you posted before. I think I saw it in "Heart of the Pines" in the great swamp chapter.

Could someone who has the GPS coords for the Mutha please PM Mark with them (Guy?, Bob?, Ed?) I never took them. Thanks again Mark.

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Bob,

I’m sorry for any confusion. I was primarily concerned with providing an age-estimation for your tree. In addition its low branch-clothing indicates the surroundings had to be sparsely vegetated, at minimum, for the entire life of the tree. The tree’s ample girth may be age-deceptive. Age-estimations by standard trunk-diameter formulas are problematic since Mutha is an unusual cedar specimen. This tree deviates from the normal cedar since: 1) its trunk-flair is exaggerated by an atypical branch arrangement; and 2) it grew out in the open receiving much greater sunlight exposure than would a typical forest-grown tree.

The only food a tree gets is from sunlight, its energy derived from carbohydrates manufactured during photosynthesis. Double the available sunlight, and you could theoretically double the tree’s food-producing potential. Fertilizer is not plant food, but is technically just plant vitamins.

Along the East Coast, southern whitecedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) is common from South Carolina to southern Maine. Its counterpart, northern whitecedar (a.k.a. eastern arborvitae or Thuja occidentalis) ranges from New York to Newfoundland. Neither are true cedars (Cedrus) hence their common names are better written as "whitecedar" and not "white cedar" to avoid confusion with true cedar.



Best,
Spung-Man

The Mutha has a constant water flow around it and at one time was probably on an island surrounded by water, the area around it is all cedar and Maple/gum. I recall George saying it was difficult to determine age of a cedar on size alone.

 

[Teegate]

Could someone who has the GPS coords for the Mutha please PM Mark with them (Guy?, Bob?, Ed?) I never took them. Thanks again Mark.

Jeff

Done.

Guy

 

[mudboy dave]

sorry to hear the crap you went threw with no success. Hopefully your parade is still coming. thats why i revived this thread when I saw it , all the excitement and hassle should be recognized and appreciated.