Then & Now Photos

Pan

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Boyd, I think u r trying to get me to eat an old hat! My barn looked like it would be lucky to last two days longer and that was fifty years ago! Too bad I don't have the GPS coordinates. You could have looked for the remains. As it is, the only slight clue to its location is the dirt road that curved around it. I used to find my way around the woods back then with a compass and geological survey maps.
 
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Pan

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Not at all! :D Just to be clear... in this context "historical structures" means "things that aren't there anymore".

Oh OK, but shouldn't it say sites of historical structures? Do you see anything likely to be that old barn? It was in the woods all by itself with that little dirt path curving around it. If you could find the site there would probably still be remains of it, like old wood and nails. Wouldn't it be interesting to find it and research its history and find out who lived there?...like Colin Fletcher (who I met once) did when he stumbled upon a cave that was occupied briefly many years before while hiking in the Nevada wilderness, and he did that and wrote a whole very interesting book about it, The Man From The Cave.
 
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Boyd

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Do you see anything likely to be that old barn?
No, that's why I asked you! :) Most of my historical stuctures were traced from vintage topo maps, so the location is approximate and size is not very accurate. Now that I have a very complete dataset of contemporary structures from Microsoft (about 1.8 million on my new map), it's very interesting to overlay these on the old topo maps. Right away you notice buildings that no longer exist.
 
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manumuskin

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No, that's why I asked you! :) Most of my historical stuctures were traced from vintage topo maps, so the location is approximate and size is not very accurate. Now that I have a very complete dataset of contemporary structures from Microsoft (about 1.8 million on my new map), it's very interesting to overlay these on the old topo maps. Right away you notice buildings that no longer exist.
I search for lost buildings/cellar holes on Historical aerials but your map makes it much easier to see larger areas at a glance and then check the aerials for confirmation.I use your 1930 aerial frequently ,the 1940';s amd 50';s are clearer but of course the 31 shows buildings that fell down prior to the 40;s
 
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Boyd

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Have found some interesting things while working on this map. Look at the USGS topo of Shell Pile, there's a whole village with a school and a church:

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#16/39.2392/-75.0241/pines1999

This mostly matches the so-called 1970 aerials (actually filmed in 1971, 72 and 77), but the row of homes on the West side of the main road are already gone.

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#18/39.23869/-75.02345/njgin1970

The 1977 aerials (filmed in 1977-78) show most of the homes near the water gone

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#18/39.23869/-75.02345/njgin1977

Everything is gone and growing over by 1995

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#18/39.23869/-75.02345/pines1995bw

What happened to Shell Pile? Flood? Hurricane?

[edit]Looking a little closer, that USGS Topo was printed in 1993 but wasn't updated since 1956. So sometime between about 1956 - 1971 the homes on the West side of the road went away, the ones near the water were gone by 1978 and the homes on the East side of the road were gone by 1995.
 
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Pan

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"No, that's why I asked you! "

All I remember about it - I think! - was that it (the old barn) was all by itself in the woods near where my survey map showed Duke's Bridge.

"Looking a little closer, that USGS Topo was printed in 1993 but wasn't updated since 1956. "

1956, yep those were the maps I used to use when I was poking around in there. I'd hide my VW Beetle in the Plains and backpack around for a few days. It was rare to see anybody, a Piney sometimes, always friendly (not like the guy with the shotgun in the NY woods!). No such thing as off roaders back then. I heard about gangsters burying people in there but I never met anybody worse than that odd fellow in the Plains who seemed to be ditching his car, or something...Sometimes I brought my camera and took photos of whatever struck my fancy. Too bad I didn't take more pictures of things that would have been more interesting now.

"Have found some interesting things while working on this map. Look at the USGS topo of Shell Pile, there's a whole village with a school and a church"

Looks like the old school and church were still there a few years ago:

 
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Boyd

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1956, yep those were the maps I used to use when I was poking around in there.
The USGS topo maps are not monolithic, that's a misconception many people seem to have. Each quadrangle has its own history of revisions. In making "1999 in the Pines", I used the final version of each map. I was talking about the Port Norris Quad that was revised in 1956 and printed in 1993, in the case of Dukes Bridge, that is the Chatsworth Quad which was revised in 1995 and printed in 2000. This info is shown in the title block in the Southeast corner of every quad:

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#16/39.7515/-74.5040/pines1999

There's an overview map and a spreadsheet with all the details here:


As you can see, some quads were updated a lot more often than others. See all the different versions in the USGS Historical Topographic Map Collection. This was also the source for my "1899 in the Pines" and "1949 in the Pines" maps.

 
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Pan

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Your maps are awesome, Boyd. Wish I would have had that back then, and a GPS to go with it! All I had were the big awkward to use USGS maps, and I do recall that some were revised more recently updated than others, but I think the newest revisions I had were 1956, some going back to 1949 or so. The Chatsworth map would have been the one I used the most. I I painted it with a waterproof coating, which made it even more awkward to use. And I also had New Jersey road maps which they gave away free at gas stations back then. One company's showed more detail in the Pines, I forgot which, Esso, Mobilgas, maybe Gulf. And a compass.

When I went back east to visit in 1997 or 8 and my low slung 2WD rental car got totally bogged down in one of the most remote parts of the Barrens (I have the exact spot marked on my GPS - I don't think anyone had been on that road for 50 years!) for two days I had nothing except a road map and a bottle of Mackeson Stout and a big seashell and a cell phone with no signal and a Garmin 176 GPS.
 
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manumuskin

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Boyd My Dad used to be a commercial fisherman and crabber in Delaware bay.He would often sell his catch in Bivalve/Shell Pile.I was a kid in the 70;s I remember driving down the road to Shell pile and there were maybe half a dozen houses there back then,a few on both sides of the road.They were all poor black families living there.I remember seein houses with holes in the walls and no doors and windows with people living in them,little kids running around in rags,about like I was to:confused:ld men sitting outside playing dominos with a 55 gallon drum fire sitting next to them. They all seemed to be quite happy and would wave as we went by.My Dad knew most of them.I guess money isn';t always necessary for happiness.We were pretty damn poor ourselves back then.
 
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manumuskin

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PS I remember they had nice new black Cadillacs out side but as i said no doors or windows in the house.,We had a door and windows but a beat up pickup truck that you could see the road through the floor so I guess we were both at about the same wealth level.
 

Boyd

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Further along the shore, look at Moores Beach. It has been completely wiped out by the Bay. Compare this spot on the USGS Topo

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#16/39.1883/-74.9512/pines1999

To the same location on the 2015 aerials... All gone!

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#16/39.1883/-74.9512/njgin2015

Here they are overlaid on each other, the shoreline has moved almost 500 feet inland at the point where the road meets the water, even farther on the West side of the inlet.

Screen Shot 2020-08-23 at 1.27.03 PM.png


Everything was still there in 1977

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#17/39.18830/-74.95120/njgin1977

But by 1995 it was mostly gone. That big inlet West of the road wasn't even there in 1977 and there are so many other changes, it's almost hard to believe these are even the same place!

https://online.boydsmaps.com/#17/39.18830/-74.95120/pines1995bw

[edit]Was this caused by Hurricane Gloria in 1985 perhaps?

 
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manumuskin

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I didn't start going out to Moores beach till around 2000 because the people that lived there back before then were not friendly.There were signs as you pulled up to the dunes that said if you don't live here you don't belong here and there was absolutely no place to park or to access the beach.I drove up to it once in the 80's and then never went back till the state condemned it and bought it.,Thompsons Beach was the same way
 
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manumuskin

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you can still find septic tank lids along the beach or at least you could before the beach replenishment a few years ago.don't know if they took em or just dumped sand over em.Thompsons they left the one foundation fireplace/chimney and the septic lids and a set of steps just east of the foundation
 
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