They just won't stop

Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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http://www.saveh2onj.org/takeaction/support-wharton-state-forest-plan

Jason,

I know you're getting paid to shill this party line, but come on: could you write a more one-sided press release?

You neglected to mention that there's a lot of fellow environmentalists (well respected ones, to boot) who disagree with the MAP. You ought to mention that the off-road community agrees that there should be a map (lower case) showing where you can and can't go: the only distinction is that the public doesn't want the map that was drawn up in secret between the PPA and Rob Auermuller. You fail to mention that the off-road community has repeatedly tried to reach out to the PPA to discuss strategies and alternatives but has been ignored. You ought to mention how the PPA stacked the special interest group working sessions to try to influence the outcome of those meetings, rather than let it be a fair, transparent, and open process.

It boils down to this. People realize that you want to prevent access to the forest, limiting people to the barest minimum of roads, cutting off access to many unofficial canoe launching spots, making it harder for hunters to reach their usual spots. Of course you could always go to a livery that offers tours of the Pinelands if you want to see the spots that the PPA has allowed you to see.

It boils down to this, Jason: The PPA needs to stop having a tantrum and recognize that there are other interests at stake here. You guys should start acting in good faith and come together with the user groups to come up with a plan that maximizes both protection and access.
 

Teegate

Administrator
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Sep 17, 2002
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Even thought I gave your post a "Like" I really don't like that you had to post it.

The PPA is full of arrogant obnoxious individuals and the public is tired of hearing them moan and groan.

Guy
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,128
Coastal NJ
"It boils down to this, Jason: The PPA needs to stop having a tantrum and recognize that there are other interests at stake here. You guys should start acting in good faith and come together with the user groups to come up with a plan that maximizes both protection and access."

I've yet to see a leopard change its spots. Skunks tend to keep their stripes as well. Some things will never change.
 
GAH! I've said it before, I'll say it again - THERE ARE SO MANY THREATS TO THE PINE BARRENS THAT IT MAKES ME INSANE THAT WE ARE NEEDLESSLY TEARING OURSELVES TO PIECES OVER THIS ISSUE.

We need to work TOGETHER to figure this thing out, and the original MAP process was wrong. The state has come out and said so much when they apologized and scrapped it. I can't stand the demonization of everyone who opposes the originally released MAP plan as some crazy offroading yokel who wants to tear up endangered species and historical ruins with his souped up quasi-legal off road machine.

I'm sure I'm biased, but the anti-MAP folks (through cleanups and outreach campaigns) seem to be doing a good job of showing good faith, and that many long-standing folks on this board (who have certainly shown their dedication to preserving the pines) are smeared as nothing better than outlaws throwing their non-biodegradable McDonalds Big Mac containers (ok, so those haven't actually existed in a while) out their car windows while gleefully tearing through historic ruins and dumping weed killer on endangered plants is absurd.

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:
 

Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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Just thought that I should update this. After I posted this thread Jason reached out to me with his phone number and asked me to call him.

I think that me discussing things in private with him does everybody involved in this process a huge disservice. The people involved in this really need to act transparently. People need to be able to gather all of the facts on this issue and make an informed decision on their own.

To that effect Jason has told me (in the aforementioned private message after I told him I would not call) that he will no longer be discussing PPA related things on this site.

So we're just going to have to take their silence as their explanation.
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,288
744
Atco, NJ
So the only place he will discuss PPA related things is on their website and Facebook page where they can simply delete posts that don't agree with their agenda.
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,309
292
Near Mt. Misery
Apparently the Pinelands Commission had a disscussion of mortorized vehicle access in Wharton on their adgenda friday morning. From my information public input was allowed. Anybody else hear anything more, or were present?
 

Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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From what I understand many PPA/NJCF people showed up as well as a number of OTNJ/pro access people. It was a calm and professional meeting.

I would have loved to have gone, but 9:30AM on a weekday is when most people have to be at work. (I don't understand how the Pinelands Commission can reasonably expect "public input" when the majority of the people who can show up are likely paid to make their employer's opinions known.)
 
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SuperChooch

Explorer
Aug 26, 2011
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Apparently the Pinelands Commission had a disscussion of mortorized vehicle access in Wharton on their adgenda friday morning. From my information public input was allowed. Anybody else hear anything more, or were present?
Summary:
http://www.opentrailsnj.org/update-on-pinelands-commission-meeting/

MAP opponents outnumbered supporters about 5:1. All the MAP supporters save a few that were there for other reasons seemed to be professionals from the NJCF or PPA.
 

oji

Piney
Jan 25, 2008
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Browns Mills
From what I understand many PPA/NJCF people showed up as well as a number of OTNJ/pro access people. It was a calm and professional meeting.

I would have loved to have gone, but 9:30AM on a weekday is when most people have to be at work. (I don't understand how the Pinelands Commission can reasonably expect "public input" when the majority of the people who can show up are likely paid to make their employer's opinions known.)
This subject was only a discussion, if it was something coming up for a vote you can comment online (they read all of them and reply every time the issue comes up). http://www.nj.gov/pinelands/home/contact/public.shtml
 
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