Thinking about Aserdaten

[Ben Ruset]

Aserdaten has always been a mystery. For a while I believed it was solved when I transcribed a 1950's article that Beck wrote about the area, which cleared a lot of what was printed in the Aserdaten chapter of Jersey Genesis.

Last year, Renee and Ted Gordon went out searching for Aserdaten, and apparently found ruins. They claim that the location of Aserdaten is different than what most maps (and myself) think. Now, before I get into this too much, I also want to say that Bob found (and subsequently showed me) ruins right by the area commonly thought of as Aserdaten, so I still think this is the right area.

With this new 1930's DEP imagery available, I thought that it might shed some light on the question. Sadly, it does not. But I wanted to get a discussion going on this.

Here is Renee's post about her trip to Aserdaten. It's posted on Barry's Yahoo site.

Ted reminded us that there appears to be no substantial historical backing for any one with the name Asa Dayton, a name and legend popularized by Henry C. Beck and his friend Ned Knox in a delightful chapter titled “The Adventure of Aserdaten” in Jersey Genesis (1945). In fact, he believes there never was a village here, but a lone house that occurred on what was the Aserdaten Tract. Ted showed us a Board of Proprietors’ survey titled ASERDATEN TRACT, 1400 acres, 1796 that he and Elizabeth Morgan discovered while doing research on the region. Ted’s copy of the Todd Survey, 1876, of the Beers-Chetwood Estate shows an alternate spelling “Ascerdaton” Road far to the west of the home site.

So, this is pretty interesting. Aserdaten was known as Aserdaten before 1796. The thought is that Asa Dayton was a caretaker for Rutherford Stuyvesant's land holdings in the area. Rutherford was developing the area circa 1860, so that would mean that the name was there before he was. But, I wonder, was the land owned by Peter Stuyvesant or one of his later descendants who had a caretaker called Asa Dayton? Or was the "Aserdaten Tract" not even part of Rutherfords holdings? I know that if you look at tax maps of the area, many still mention "Stuyvesant Tract."

The USGS Survey titled the Whiting Sheet, 1888 edition (surveyed in 1884) shows the location of Aserdaten house (the spot where we are standing right now) correctly, Ted said. The 1930 Brookville aerial map corroborates that, showing the old Aserdaten Road running past the south side of this house and extending both to the west and east of Jones Road. (It is also helpful to study the 1986 aerial map. Ted remarked that after 75 years of natural succession and numerous forest fires, this road, still visible in 1930, has been completely expunged. So too, any remnants of a fence that Beck encountered during his visit. Misinterpretation of the old maps by lost town hunters has led to confusion and frustration. Speaking from experience, Ted remarked that most of them have searched unsuccessfully for the home site at the intersection of the road farther north. This road, labeled Aserdaten on some modern maps, extends only to the east of Jones Road and is blocked by several sand mounds to prevent access into a sand mining operation.

If you look at the 1888 USGS Whiting topo, it shows Aserdaten at the same spot that all of the other maps show it to be, so I'm not too sure what Ted is getting at here. From what I can tell, the next road to the South that crosses Jones Rd. is the Bryant Rd., which is the one that crosses Rt. 539 and also was the location of the fire tower before it moved.

I don't see any other road between Bryant Rd. and where the maps show Aserdaten to be that crosses Jones Rd. on both sides.

Here's a giant Then & Now showing the area around where I think Ted is talking about, the area that I think Aserdaten is at, and a close up of that area. Neither spots are compelling for a home site, but apparently there are ruins at both Ted's and my site.


Click for a very large version.

 

[Teegate]

Ben,

I have old survey map that show Aserdaten right where Bob found the ruins. Let me look it/them over again and I will see if I can post portions of it without giving out other info on the maps.

Guy

 

[bobpbx]

Its a puzzle boys, its a puzzle indeed.

..."and there were the two cellar holes, yawning pits in the midst of tall indian grass, cavities in which I dug out bricks and field stones".

(H. Beck, pg 175, Jersey Genesis)


.."Somehow....you begin to dread getting at the truth about Aserdaten. It's like a secret that will remain a secret no matter what happens. Maybe it's better that way".

(Ned Knox to H. Beck, pg 180, Jersey Genesis)

 

[woodjin]

I thought the location and ruins that Bob took us to where indictive of a settlement and livestock operation (remember the clearings) The higher elevation on the east side of the road seemed more likely than the west.

Jeff

 

[Teegate]

I am working on maps. The problem is they will be large. You will have to deal with it by maybe changing monitor settings. It will break the boundaries of the page, but that to me is the best way for all to see them next to each other. If it don't wok I will remove them.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

I thought the location and ruins that Bob took us to where indictive of a settlement and livestock operation (remember the clearings) The higher elevation on the east side of the road seemed more likely than the west.

Jeff

I am not so sure it is east or west, is it in another location all together. I think that is what Ben wants to know.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

Ok ... Here we go. First, I made them big for various reasons, one because the top map is huge and I had to scan it in two sections. When I sized it down it became blurry so we will have to go with this.

This map was drawn when all of the Webb family was still living. I believe the mill was gone before 1850 so we have a general idea of a timeline. I will see if I can narrow it down more but 1838 is mentioned on this map saying "Now". Look just above where I wrote Dutchman's. Lets discuss the map. On the far left where I have written Old Half Way, you can see the map shows Old Half Way below it. To the right you can see Dutchman’s road which I have circled on the right. This road is the road that goes right through the center of the rye fields in the Greenwood Forest which you can see in a map below. So if we travel Dutchman road from left to right we come to where I have T-Pee marked. That is where I found the crude T-Pee when I was looking for stones on Dutchman’s road using a different survey map. So I am certain this is Dutchman’s road. If we continue to the right on Dutchman’s road we come directly to Aserdaten. Zeb Colliers which is mentioned next to where I wrote his name is mentioned on many survey maps I have and was the home of Zebulon Colliers where the Eureka gun club is. Those maps date from the 1880’s. So if we travel from Zeb's place across the Chamberlain at Blacks Bridge we round the curve in the road to Aserdaten. Compare with the aerial below to see that.

Now lets go to the below maps.

This map shows the route of Dutchman’s road. If you compare it to the map above you might think that the road curves in this map and not in that one, but you have to realize we are using a modern aerial map and they were drawing it where it most likely seemed quite straight when traveling on it.

This map shows the area from the T-Pee to Aserdaten. This is the road that Ted remarked that after 75 years of natural succession and numerous forest fires, this road, still visible in 1930, has been completely expunged. But as with many roads in the pines that are no longer there you can still see them in aerial views. Many of us walked a portion of that in the summer and had problems following it even though it is clearly shown on this aerial map.

Also, Ted remarked that most of them have searched unsuccessfully for the home site at the intersection of the road farther north but they did not have Bob with them when they searched. They needed the Pine Barren bloodhound with them to find it which he did. So to me it is obvious that Aserdaten is where Aserdaten is, and further searching is wise but most likely fruitless. The facts are here as far as I am concerned, and if I find more I will pass them on.

Study these closely and tell us what you think.


Guy

 

[Ben Ruset]

That makes a lot of sense. I wonder where the ruins that Ted found are.

I actually parked my old Jeep right on Dutchman's road when I was investigating the gun club ruins nearby Aserdaten.

Also, I think it was Zeb Collins, not Colliers.

Jeff, what clearings?

 

[Teegate]

That makes a lot of sense. I wonder where the ruins that Ted found are.

I actually parked my old Jeep right on Dutchman's road when I was investigating the gun club ruins nearby Aserdaten.

Also, I think it was Zeb Collins, not Colliers.

Jeff, what clearings?

I had always though Collins, but two maps I have say Colliers. I will scan up one of them.

It was mentioned that Ted felt Aserdaten was more south along the road.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

This map was originally drawn in 1907 from older surveys, and reproduced in Sept 1947 by Winfield Eldridge. If that name sound familiar, he was the surveyor who made the mistake surveying the Pine Crest Gun Club property that I mentioned in a post a while back.


Guy

 

[bobpbx]

Guy, thanks, but you give me too much credit. I found ruins, very old ruins, but now your map has me doubting it is Aserdaten. Here me out;

1.) Dutchman's Road runs fairly straight on your old map, and yet you gave a definite kink to the north in your photomap. I can't see that the old map would be that off.

2.) Why does the old map show it on the "other" side of Factory Branch? That leads to so many other questions.

3.) And finally, why is Aserdaten shown on the northeast side of the road junction?

What we should do is similarly scale all the maps and arials we can get our hands on, print them out, and have an aserdaten powow.

 

[Teegate]

Bob,

As for the house being on the wrong side, I would say if you put it on the other side it would have been too tight causing them to have to move it away from the intersection. On which corner the house is may be asking for too much perfection for the 1830's. We here have the best view of that area in history so we may be splitting hairs.

As for the river on the wrong side, we also must take into consideration this is a survey map from above Webb's Mill to Long Beach Island. They concentrate on roads and survey lines.

I have another map somewhere here that shows pretty much the same things, so I will look around for it and post if I find it.


Guy

 

[BEHR655]

Bob,
Of all the things around Aserdaten that I've seen, your find is the best bet for being part of Aserdaten. Other finds seem to modern to me.

Steve

 

[Teegate]

Bob,
Of all the things around Aserdaten that I've seen, your find is the best bet for being part of Aserdaten. Other finds seem to modern to me.

Steve

I agree.

Old maps don't always show curved roads as such, they many times show them perfectly straight. And if you look closely it actually shows Dutchman's road curving upward as it gets towards Aserdaten. Look closely. Or I should say it shows another road heading downward. That could be a road that went straight where Dutchman's road curved up.

Guy

 

[MarkBNJ]

Very interesting stuff. You can still see most of the line of Dutchman's in the satellite views, and it has a definite kink in it. The last time I was up there we cruised right by the 3-way where Aserdaten is shown on the old topos, and stopped at the next 3-way north, mistaking that for the area. I will have to go back there soon and look around more at the one to the south. If you continue north you cross a bridge and see posted private property on both sides of the road, with what looks like a ruin in the NE corner. We were divided as to whether it was a ruin or an old dump, and unwilling to enter into the property to look. Personally I thought the dump or ruin was more modern, but the property itself seems a lot older, especially the trees on the west side of the road. Not sure if this was associated with Aserdaten, something else we debated. I was no able to put a name to it on any of the old maps. It's quite visible in the satellite views just across the bridge 1.2 miles north of the intersection where Aserdaten is shown on the maps.

 

[Teegate]

. If you continue north you cross a bridge and see posted private property on both sides of the road, with what looks like a ruin in the NE corner. We were divided as to whether it was a ruin or an old dump, and unwilling to enter into the property to look. Personally I thought the dump or ruin was more modern, but the property itself seems a lot older, especially the trees on the west side of the road. Not sure if this was associated with Aserdaten, something else we debated. I was no able to put a name to it on any of the old maps. It's quite visible in the satellite views just across the bridge 1.2 miles north of the intersection where Aserdaten is shown on the maps.

That was the home of Zebulon Collins or Colliers, then it was various gun clubs with the last one the Eureka. Read Jersey Genesis by Beck and concentrate on The Adventure of Aserdaten chapter.

The bridge there is Black's Bridge which Beck mentions. He also called it the "little span". It is now private property.

Guy

 

[Ben Ruset]

Well, the bridge isn't private property. Just the land surrounding it.

 

[Teegate]

Correct. I should have put that on a different line in my text.

The exact center of the bridge, or I should say former bridge had a nail in it for the Greenwood Forest survey. All of the property south of it along the river is part of the Greenwood Forest.

There is a cement monument 107 feet from the bridge. I will have to look for that one day. It most likely flush or underground.

Guy

 

[bobpbx]

Bob,

As for the house being on the wrong side, I would say if you put it on the other side it would have been too tight causing them to have to move it away from the intersection. On which corner the house is may be asking for too much perfection for the 1830's. We here have the best view of that area in history so we may be splitting hairs.

As for the river on the wrong side, we also must take into consideration this is a survey map from above Webb's Mill to Long Beach Island. They concentrate on roads and survey lines.

I have another map somewhere here that shows pretty much the same things, so I will look around for it and post if I find it.


Guy

Guy, I am curious about the grid lines on your old map (where it says; 21 and 22). Is that a longitude line? Is it dead on north and south?

Also, can you make out what it says on the old map at the intersection just above T-PEE?

 

[Teegate]

Guy, I am curious about the grid lines on your old map (where it says; 21 and 22). Is that a longitude line? Is it dead on north and south?

Also, can you make out what it says on the old map at the intersection just above T-PEE?

The text is just mentioning the owners, acres, and who it was deeded to.

http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/misc/01.jpg

As for the grid lines 21 and 22 I am not going to tell you. Think about what it could be that would interest me that would go through there in a straight line.

Guy