Who Owns What

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,420
4,541
Pines; Bamber area
Speaking of lots and ownership, this is a pet peeve of mine. Okay, so we don't get to see private owners and adresses anymore. But why is it that any land owned by the public at large (or made into preserves to be open to the public by organizations) is not clearly identified on the state tax map? I mean Federal, State, County, and Township; to include conservation organizations, Green Acres, natural Land Trusts, etc. For instance, this is all it says about Wharton in some places.

"John Fitch Way"? What is the public supposed to glean from that?

1669481613120.png


Here's another. "CN-229" What is that supposed to tell us?

1669481759309.png


And here's property held by a Conservation Organization. I do understand the ownership will be found on more than one map in color, but the reason I include this, is to point out that I only work from aerials, and what if wanted to see the exact line, and who owns the property across that line?

My point is, there should be a top category in that pop up box with clear ownship defined. Some examples:

Ownership: Wharton State Forest or New Jersey Conservation Organization, or Green Acres, or Lacey Township, or Burlington County (etc, etc, etc)

1669482468617.png
 

Boyd

Administrator
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The data is available, just not in their property ownership app. You need to look at the NJDEP Openspace dataset I used, you can browse it here. I don't quite understand the Arcgis map viewer, it seemed like I had to first choose an attribute to view before the features would appear on the map Anyway, you can access it here. Of course, I just download these datasets and make my own maps, and still have full un-redacted parcels for the whole state from c.2017. If you have ArcGis software, you should be able to create maps that combine the parcels and openspace. It may be free to do that with their web app, I really don't know.


Map viewer app


Screen Shot 2022-11-26 at 2.32.27 PM.png
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,783
8,427
What I find annoying is that large multiple property owners have never had their name listed. I believe what occurs is if they have many parcels their name is only put on one of them. I knows this occurs with the state. If they buy lets say 4 parcels next to each other only one is listed.

I will write the man who I have contact with occasionally and ask what he knows about legislation concerning the privacy of names.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,420
4,541
Pines; Bamber area
What I find annoying is that large multiple property owners have never had their name listed. I believe what occurs is if they have many parcels their name is only put on one of them. I knows this occurs with the state. If they buy lets say 4 parcels next to each other only one is listed.

I will write the man who I have contact with occasional and ask what he knows about legislation concerning the privacy of names.
Can you please question why they could not do what I ask? Use whatever you want from my post.
I should not have to fool around with downloading data sets with arcgis and build my own erector set. They have the property lines, then please identify them!
 
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Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,783
8,427
In regards to multiple lots not having info on them that is not the states fault. Here is the answer.

For the additional lots issue when there are multiple adjacent lots owned by the same person or entity, the tax list information is limited to the primary lot record. That happens at the local level and that is how the Division of Taxation receives the information from the locals and maintains it in the MOD-IV tax list database. We have no control over local governments nor the Division of Taxation.

So basically, when multiple lots are purchased only the main lot will have information on the owner. And currently they will not have the names.

*****

Currently, they have not heard when the owners name will be again added to the tax list. When and if it does those in judiciary and law enforcement should be able to choose to have their names redacted.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,420
4,541
Pines; Bamber area
Lazy, they are. It really points to that. In other words, give the public the middle finger. After all, why should the public know. If you want to know, come into our tax office and lean on the counter trying to read those huge tax books. No thanks, you jerks. And Bass River is one of the WORST!
 

Boyd

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No thanks, you jerks.

Personally, I'm very pleased with the free GIS resources that New Jersey offers and appreciate the work that NJOIT/OGIS staff do to maintain and enhance them. Of course, they can't be all things to all people and there's always room for improvement. But I really disagree with the notion that they are "lazy jerks who give the public the middle finger".

There's a wealth of data there and it's possible to go far beyond what's on their website by downloading and processing it yourself. I made some suggestions above, but you aren't interested. Fair enough, it does take some knowledge and time. And that's what I now devote the bulk of my time (and a fair amount of money) to by creating a free resource for everyone at boydsmaps.com. It would certainly be easier (and cheaper) to just sit here and complain that somebody else doesn't give me the free maps I want.

I've spent considerable time looking at the resources offered by many other states and can tell you that New Jersey is right up there near the top when it comes to making maps and data available to the public for free. Quite a few states offer nothing at all. And I've had very little luck finding any parcel data at all from other states.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,420
4,541
Pines; Bamber area
I was speaking of the individual townships. And Boyd, I really tire of you thinking we all have the time, and the inclination, and the skill to match you in what you do. You constantly berate us to "just do the hard work yourself, by downloading and processing yourself". I don't think it's too hard for the townships and the state to get together and have us see who owns what property with just a couple clicks on a website. That is the complaint.
 

Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Well, since you're being so nice, here's what I suggested doing above, it only took a few minutes.

Go to the openspace data page here




Click the "More" button and choose Open in ArcGIS Map Viewer. We'll use Wharton as an example.



viewer.png


There's probably an easier way to do this next step, but here's what I did. Go to the Parcels data page here




Scroll down to "I want to..." and click View Data Source. On the page that opens, right-click "Cad_parcel_mod4" and copy the address


data.png



Now go back to the map viewer (map of wharton shown above) and click the Add button. Choose "Add Layer from Web" and paste the address in the box



add.png





Now you will have the openspace and parcels on the same map. Click on a location and you will see the openspace data


openspace.png



Click the button that says "2 of 2" and you get the parcel data

Screen Shot 2022-11-29 at 10.31.59 AM.png


Now, what I can't seem to do is save or link to this map. I believe an ArcGIS account is needed for that, but am pretty sure it would be free for this kind of usage. Will leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Bob is probably not going to do this, but maybe somebody else will find it useful.
 
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enormiss

Explorer
Aug 18, 2015
592
385
Atco NJ
Pretty powerful tool but most people would not be able to figure that out.
I had trouble just following your directions but think that was more differences between apple and the chromebook I'm on?
That's my story anyway and I'm sticking with it :D

But after getting it to show it's still missing ownership data and that seems to be the peeve
 

enormiss

Explorer
Aug 18, 2015
592
385
Atco NJ
I guess if you do enough digging eventually you can find it, must be multiple different data sets out there...
Finally found parcel data I had been curious about here (clicky). They were listed as unavailable/no_data everywhere I previously looked.
Every parcel there showed an "owner address" that I could then track back. All ended up being township owned...
Unfortunately that map is only Camden County

And this site apparently hasn't heard of Daniels Law yet, tons of info, but it had no data for the parcels I was curious about.
https://njpropertyrecords.com/street-map
 

Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Pretty powerful tool but most people would not be able to figure that out.

Which is why I did a mini-tutorial. :)

Finally found parcel data I had been curious about here (clicky). They were listed as unavailable/no_data everywhere I previously looked.

Isn't this the same data that is available state-wide here? Owner names are redacted (just like they were in the link you posted) but it shows the property address (for most parcels).

 

enormiss

Explorer
Aug 18, 2015
592
385
Atco NJ
I had parcels I couldn't find any data on (except that Camden Co site). Assuming due to the this...

In regards to multiple lots not having info on them that is not the states fault. Here is the answer.

For the additional lots issue when there are multiple adjacent lots owned by the same person or entity, the tax list information is limited to the primary lot record. That happens at the local level and that is how the Division of Taxation receives the information from the locals and maintains it in the MOD-IV tax list database. We have no control over local governments nor the Division of Taxation.

So basically, when multiple lots are purchased only the main lot will have information on the owner. And currently they will not have the names.

On that Mod-IV link most data comes up "null"
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,420
4,541
Pines; Bamber area
I guess if you do enough digging eventually you can find it, must be multiple different data sets out there...
Finally found parcel data I had been curious about here (clicky). They were listed as unavailable/no_data everywhere I previously looked.
Every parcel there showed an "owner address" that I could then track back. All ended up being township owned...
Unfortunately that map is only Camden County

And this site apparently hasn't heard of Daniels Law yet, tons of info, but it had no data for the parcels I was curious about.
https://njpropertyrecords.com/street-map
And 'no data', Daniels law just does not cut it. All I'd like to see is broad category: Private / Business / Non-Profit / etc.
 

Boyd

Administrator
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Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Here's something interesting that I just noticed. I am not recommending because I know nothing about it. Anyway, there's an app called Onyx (sorry, the correct name is "OnX") that doesn't seem to be worried about showing property owner names. Have only spent about two minutes looking on their website, so I don't know how comprehensive the data is. But here's an example

onyx.png



You can't link directly to it, but just go to their website, scroll down to the bottom where it says "Powerful 3d Planning) and click the map. It took a little while to load for me. Then click the Satellite button and click 2d (this is a bit confusing). Zoom way out, drag the map to NJ and zoom back in. When you get close enough, it shows property owners. And it's free to do this on their website.


They have a 7-day free trial of the full app (iOS and Android), after that it's $100/year. You can decide for yourself whether that would be worthwhile. Who knows, they might end up pulling owner names in the future - after you have spent $100, LOL. They also have a version without the property names for $30/yr. I think there is also a free version with more limitations?


One interesting feature is that the app is compatible with Apple Carplay and Android Auto, so you can use it on your car's built-in screen (if available). Apparently you can also download maps to use with no cell signal.



Does anybody here use this already?
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
I have it on my phone, but your maps are much more useful. From what I understand the company software, On-X is non paved roads and trails. Take a look at Cali and Utah
 
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Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Figured "why not" and downloaded the free trial on my iPhone. Have only spent a few minutes, but it correctly shows my property and my neighbors. It even shows my driveway as an unpaved road (at least it's marked "Private" LOL). Actually, land ownership doesn't interest me much, so I definitely won't be spending $100/year for it.
 
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