Your ideal Pinelands off-road rig?

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
Copperhead Road
If you had the time and resources what kind of rig would you put together for wheeling in the pines? Here's what I would do with my Land Cruiser if the funds were flowing a bit more freely...

Once I got the frame and body up to snuff I'd get rid of the stock engine and swap in a Cummins 4BT diesel, which is basically a 4 cylinder version of what is found in '93-'97 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 pickups. The nice thing about the 4BT is that it has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as a Chevy V8 since they were used in bread trucks/delivery vans with Allison automatics, so I could use a Chevy V8 to Land Cruiser 4 speed adapter. Since Pinelands wheeling usually gets pretty wet and can sometimes involve odd angles I'd be killing two birds with one stone with an engine that could run upside down underwater (with a snorkel of course).

Next I'd go for a modest lift, maybe 4". With trimming of the rear wheelwells I'd be able to run 35" tires no problem. I've seen some Mickey Thompsons which might do pretty well in dry sand as well as wet sand/mud conditions-I think they're called Baja claws. They have almost a Chevron tread and some pretty beefy sidewall treads as well. The stock axles (4.11 gears) would be just fine, but I'd add ARB air lockers in the front and rear for maximum traction. I'd also add power steering to clean up the slop inherent in Land Cruiser steering and to save my arms after a long day of 4 wheeling!

As for the body I'd have some fun...I'd remove the top and doors and just go with a bikini top in case of rain. The entire inside body tub would be Rhino Lined and fitted with those one piece plastic and foam racing seats so I could just hose it all out. The stock roll bar would be thrown out for a beefier one tied into the frame, and some even beefier front and rear bumpers complete with heavy duty tow points and storage would be installed. I'd also opt for a PTO winch up front...Toyota PTO boxes are hard to find but they're worth their weight in gold. A Braden 10,000 lb up front would be nice.

That's all I can think of at the moment, anybody else care to share their dream rig?

Later,

Matthew
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,619
1,878
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
My stock 2004 Rubicon handles the Pine Barrens quite well. :)

I'm not a huge fan of tires over 32", especially MT's or swampers. They tend to dig huge ruts that swallow up lesser vehicles.

Teegate, the other moderator here, does quite well with a Ford Focus.
 

wis bang

Explorer
Jun 24, 2004
235
2
East Windsor
I understand the concept of larger tires in mud but they do tear up things. When I had my Willys, I stuck to the size tires it came with. Sometimes you do better w/ out the high flotation stuff. Snow is less of a problem when you only need to push thru it w/ a stock tire. The old Willys had a narrow track & short wheelbase. It rode bad but it went placed the bigger 4x4's couldn't get to 'cause it was so narrow.

I drive along a RR line in 6" of frozen snow after a full size went thru before the re-freeze. Spent the whole time boucing one side in the rut & one on top till the bounce w/ some air & it would slide across & drop the other side into that rut...could not turn around 'cause we were along the rails so I had to stick till the next town...

only got stuck once...in mud.
 

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
Copperhead Road
I dunno, I'm not trying to justify the types of yahoos that go crashing through mud holes at 60 mph with 44" Super Swampers spinning wildly all the way...I was thinking more about what Wis Bang said about flotation. I had BFG All Terrains on my Land Cruiser (31/10.5/15) and they were great when aired down to about 18 lbs. They floated over the sand nicely and seemed to leave a minimal impact. However, once I hit any clay or mud the tread's lack of self cleaning ability turned the tire into a useless slick that required a lot of wheelspin and digging to keep going. In my opinion if you have a chunkier tire, aired down properly, you'll need less wheelspin and general terrain impact to get where you need to go. Just my $0.02...

Later,

Matthew
 

stizkidz

Piney
May 10, 2003
1,044
8
Tuckerton
My rig:

88 K5 Blazer with stock TBI 350
modified:
-465 manual w/ new forked clutch
-205 transfer case
-custom driveshafts
-4" lift-springs
-rear 14bff axle with factory gov-lock
-front 3/4 ton 10b axle
-4.10 gears
-35x12.50x15 MT/R's on...
-8 lug 15x10 steelies
-40 series flowmaster
-new rear main seal, new flywheel, new front brake parts, fresh wheel bearings
 

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
Copperhead Road
Nice truck...did you buy the SM465 and the 205 together or were they in a truck you bought and parted, etc...? I've thought about dropping the Land Cruiser trans/transfer in exchange for an all Chevy drivetrain save the axles. I had a buddy with an '87 or '88 3/4 ton with the SM465 behind a 350 (not sure what transfer case) and that truck could pull like no other in 1st gear.

Later,

Matthew
 

stizkidz

Piney
May 10, 2003
1,044
8
Tuckerton
Yea I purchased the 465/205 combo, driveshafts, rims, tires, and bumper from a guy who was parting out his Blazer. The axles I got from a junkyard in Vineland. That's the thing about the 465, its actually a 3 spd cause you drive it 2, 3, 4 and 1st gear is actually LOW gear (like 6.13, or something like that). My truck was originally an automatic so it is quite custom as far as drivetrain goes.
 

Roostriz

Scout
Feb 16, 2005
40
0
44
Egg Harbor
Man I am really torn on this one. I think for the sake of all those small trails that I'd have to go with some sort of short wheelbase rig, probably a wrangler with a small diesel, 5spd, solid axles with air lockers, a mild lift and around 33's. Of course this is all a pipe dream due to the EPA but still.....

Hey badfish that 4bt is cool. I actually looked into a cj5 project with one before but man they are heavy. Around the 500+ lb neighborhood, probably wouldn't be as noticable in a land cruiser though. Also those engines have adapters to fit it to the GM or whatever transmission they were using in the particular application. The problem most guys seem to have is finding the correct adapter, there doesn't seem to be a cross reference (according to cummins) to determine which is for what application other than by eyeing the tranny.

stizkidz how is that gov lok holding up? Had one in a chevy I recently got rid of but wasn't too happy with it. This was in a 97 so it didn't remain locked over 20 mph (by the speedo) Is your older version better? I only ask b/c I have a friend who is thinking of putting a govlok equiped rear in his k10.

In fairness to the small tire guys here ;-) We had a stock sammy that rarely got stuck running on only 3 cylinders and those dinky tires. Obvously we had to pick our battles though!

Chris
 

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
Copperhead Road
Roostriz said:
Hey badfish that 4bt is cool. I actually looked into a cj5 project with one before but man they are heavy. Around the 500+ lb neighborhood, probably wouldn't be as noticable in a land cruiser though.

You bet...the stock Land Cruiser inline six is a cast iron monster that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 lbs. I don't have the link handy but I saw a really clean swap (4BT into a Land Cruiser FJ55) a couple of weeks ago on a messageboard. I think the pines are what convinced me that diesels were the way to go as far as off roading. I can't tell you how many times I had to spray electrical connections with WD-40, take out my distributor cap and blow on it, etc...because of water-why waterproof your ignition system when you can eliminate it! Besides the point that you can have 300+ ft/lbs of torque at 1500 RPM instead of 3500. I've also looked into making fuel from waste vegetable oil but that's a whole other topic entirely.

Later,

Matthew
 

stizkidz

Piney
May 10, 2003
1,044
8
Tuckerton
Gov lock is just a fancy way of saying "posi rear". Most people will tell you they are junk and refer to them as "gov bombs". I have not had any problems yet, but when it does blow, I will replace it with a Detroit. The govlock in my 10 bolt held up just fine, care to buy it?
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,619
1,878
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
Another problem with lifted rigs is the fact that it's hard to get them down really tight, overgrown trails.

I think a Wrangler (or even a Sami) is the ideal PB vehicle for exploring, not all out "wheeling."

When I go into the woods, it's to explore more than to get my Jeep dirty. If I get muddy then it's an extra bonus. And more work for me to have to clean off before it eats all of my seals and bushings.

Edit: And I only stay on roads and trails. NEVER venture into any wetlands. I'll hunt down people who find a pristine marshy area and tear it up.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,723
4,911
Pines; Bamber area
bruset said:
Edit: And I only stay on roads and trails. NEVER venture into any wetlands. I'll hunt down people who find a pristine marshy area and tear it up.

I'm with you on that one Ben. I did that one time when I was young and dumb and I always regret it now that I've seen the endangered plants growing in them. I usually stuck to the roads. Here are some grainy photos of me and my buddies (circa 1977) in my 1975 Jeep Renegade I bought off the factory floor. It had the levis jean interior and top,and I put a 4 barrel and headers on the 304 V-8 engine. My camera was not the best, sorry. By the way I touched them up with today's digital photo editor. I was not aware that could be done.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10011&pos=-2767
 

Roostriz

Scout
Feb 16, 2005
40
0
44
Egg Harbor
Badfish, I know those old inlines are pretty heavy didn't expect that though. The other cool thing about the 4bt's is that if you want more power they will respond in much the same way as the 6bt. Plus if you got it to run on fryer oil it would smell like Mcdonalds too hehe. The wd40 thing makes me laugh, I think we had to use a can of wire dryer on my friends f150 everytime we went out. It had the 300ci 6cyl with the distributor down low, always got wet.
That link is pretty sharp btw.

Stizkidz, I hate to tell you this but the 14 bolt carriers are different between the locking and non locking and the aftermarket lockers only work with an open carrier 14bolt. So its govlok or a whole new rear. This is for a full floater, not sure about the semi floating 14bolt. I know I have a link somewhere that describes it more in depth. I'll see if I can find it for you.
 

Badfish740

Explorer
Feb 19, 2005
589
44
Copperhead Road
Yeah...The Toyota 2F inline six is a beast. The head is cast iron which adds a lot of weight. I'm pretty sure even the Ford 300 has an aluminum head. Anyway, once I'm done with school for the summer I'd love to hook up with some people here and do some exploring. I'll still be up in north Jersey, but the pines will only be a Parkway ride away.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,075
3,371
Pestletown, N.J.
The Ford inline 300 had a cast iron head.
That was one of the best motors Ford ever made. I had an 87 and an 82 with that motor and they both had ran 170,000 troublefree miles when I sold them.
The torque started building at idle and with 4.10's they were unstoppable.
I have two F-350's (username) now, a 6 speed '02 with the 444 cu. in. International diesel and a 5 speed '97 with a 351 cu. in. gasser.
Both have limited slip factory Ford 10.25" rears with solid tube Dana 60's in the front. They are both bulletproof trucks.
My diesel is a crew cab which makes it a little tough in the woods but the gasser is a regular cab and is more maneuverable.
Both have granny creepers and and are great for crawling through holes of unknown contents.
Neither truck needs a lift and they go anywhere I need to go in the woods on stock 32" Firestone Steeltex AT tires.
 

Roostriz

Scout
Feb 16, 2005
40
0
44
Egg Harbor
RednekF350, guessing you got one of the last 7.3's since it is an 02. Nice Truck! I haven't heard great things about the 6.0 as far as recalls go, but that is neither here nor there.
That 300ci is a durable motor, my dads 90 has about 170,000 on it now with only a water pump replaced (as far as the motor goes). I don't know if this was your experience but the only negative thing I have to say about it is his truck is thirsty! Plus his big butt squished the seat foam so much that I feel like one of those old ladies who can barely see over the steering wheel.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,075
3,371
Pestletown, N.J.
I am a hard-core manual transmission man.
Thanks to yuppies and women, you now have to special order just about any truck with a manual.
All of my trucks are and have been manuals and the 300 six gave me about 16 mpg with a manual.
Roostriz, your dad's, if it is an automatic, probably gets 13-14 mpg.
My favorite trans of all time is the Borg Warner T-18. I had it in my 1987 F-350 and it was a cast iron work of art.
There was nothing like the depth of the shift gates for creeper and reverse and I can still hear that beautiful mecahanical snap when you went to third.
Damn near brings tears to my eyes.
Scott
 
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