5 charged with setting bonfire that ignited forest fire that burned 11K acres of N.J. Pinelands

bobpbx

Piney
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No, he owns all around it. The rectangle is part of Penn State. So, the bonfire was on state property and spread to private property, vise versa of what was reported.
Okay, so obviously the bonfire was not in that pit, right? Weird that the NJ tax map shows different locations for that border. I can't see the state making such a blatant charge, that it was on private property, unless it really was.


1587298277636.png
 

bobpbx

Piney
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JD, yes, the Nature Conservancy did donate to the county, but not sure if it was all of it. I can't say they didn't at least make a sight line, but back in those days I was all over those woods. I may have missed them though if very narrow.

 

Teegate

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No, he owns all around it. The rectangle is part of Penn State. So, the bonfire was on state property and spread to private property, vise versa of what was reported.
The survey without a doubt tells us that Haines indeed does NOT own the rectangle as 1Jerseydevil correctly says. I would show more but there are places I don't personally want to show.
 

lj762

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Feb 18, 2017
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Bass River State Forest
I took a walk once through the "rectangle" or "box", which state maps show as being part of Penn State Forest. On an east-west track, I came across several old POSTED - Private Property signs, some on trees and some on the ground. They had Haines name on them. When I asked the state, I was told something like "there are disputes about who owns what there."

Also, it doesn't add much, but I can tell you the State Park Service is 100% sure the fire started on private property and then spread into Bass River SF North.
 

Teegate

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Also, it doesn't add much, but I can tell you the State Park Service is 100% sure the fire started on private property and then spread into Bass River SF North.
If that is true then it did not start in that rectangle.
 

1Jerseydevil

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Feb 14, 2009
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If that is true then it did not start in that rectangle.
I agree. I know the area and there is no logical place for a bonfire other than the pit itself, the overlook or another small clearing north and slightly west of the pit, As ij762 stated, there are disputes on who owns what and is exactly the reason Haines had his land surveyed. Unless the FFS pinpoints the exact spot where the bonfire was, they are wrong as to ownership. I assume they go by state maps and boundaries which we are proving grossly inaccurate.
This is that small clearing. I doubt it was here, but if it was than the FFS is correct that it is private {Haines] https://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.7698403719536&lng=-74.45032674472807&z=17&type=hybrid&gpx=
 
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1Jerseydevil

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Okay, so obviously the bonfire was not in that pit, right? Weird that the NJ tax map shows different locations for that border. I can't see the state making such a blatant charge, that it was on private property, unless it really was.


View attachment 13396
Bob, that outline of Penn State is grossly wrong. Not only is that the "old" depiction but it never extended that far north. Originally the north boundary was the straight white line at the top of the pit. With the Haines survey it now has moved north to the faint white straight line just a little north of the overlook and now extends west across Spring Hill rd as I show in my boudnart post.
 

Teegate

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Okay. Here is a distance view of what I have done so far. In the second photo you can see how he could if needed get from his main property to all of the other area's in the map. FYI, he owns other property not shown in this area that I have not added yet. And I have some question to myself on a few corners so it may not be perfectly correct yet. It is a work in progress.

haines.jpg


This shows how if he really needed to, he can get to all of the property without going on state land. Remember, the rectangle below with the number 135 in it is NOT owned by him as mentioned previously.

haines1.jpg


This shows the small opening at number 12 above.

haines2.jpg



It is hard to believe but this is only a couple pages of a 43 page survey.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
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Bob, that outline of Penn State is grossly wrong. Not only is that the "old" depiction but it never extended that far north. Originally the north boundary was the straight white line at the top of the pit. With the Haines survey it now has moved north to the faint white straight line just a little north of the overlook and now extends west across Spring Hill rd as I show in my boudnart post.
Right, I think we are saying the same thing, but I"m saying it could be someplace else other than that pit, because they had an entire year to determine correct ownership. Could they be saying it was this pit, and the embers drifted elsewhere?

1587341822551.png
 

1Jerseydevil

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Right, I think we are saying the same thing, but I"m saying it could be someplace else other than that pit, because they had an entire year to determine correct ownership. Could they be saying it was this pit, and the embers drifted elsewhere?

View attachment 13409
This pit is Haines and yes there are bonfires there also. While we're seeing how inaccurate the state maps are I doubt the FFS would be that wrong. It's not a secret, maybe someone knows a FFS person that could pinpoint the exact location of the bonfire?
I'm far from a forest fire expert but if you look at the burn area it does appear the fire originated on what's called Spring Hill pit.
 

1Jerseydevil

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Okay. Here is a distance view of what I have done so far. In the second photo you can see how he could if needed get from his main property to all of the other area's in the map. FYI, he owns other property not shown in this area that I have not added yet. And I have some question to myself on a few corners so it may not be perfectly correct yet. It is a work in progress.

View attachment 13406

This shows how if he really needed to, he can get to all of the property without going on state land. Remember, the rectangle below with the number 135 in it is NOT owned by him as mentioned previously.

View attachment 13405

This shows the small opening at number 12 above.

View attachment 13407


It is hard to believe but this is only a couple pages of a 43 page survey.
Great job Guy! Looking a gift horse in the mouth and somewhat off topic, Haines owns Sim Place as we all know, that came with a lot of property that he also had surveyed. Unfortunately the state maps of that area show owner unknown or null. All I can say somebody in the township clerks office or the state is lax in their duties on keeping the tax maps up to date. I'm sure Haines long ago submitted his surveyed land to the proper authorities.
 

Teegate

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It is not the state. I had email conversations with the man who was involved with the making of the new state tax website and he told me they are supplied the info from the various towns and use that. If the town does not supply or update we get what we get.
 

Teegate

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I suspect I also have the Sim Place survey and will get to it one day. That is hours of work and I am not even close to putting a dent into it. I have to manually enter each coordinate into my iPad, then manually enter each coordinate into my computer and convert, then manually enter each coordinate into Google Earth, and then make the track and waypoint file. One slight mistake in hours of work and it could all be a waste of time. Fortunately, with this survey, I had other exact coordinates and found stones in the area, so when one landed on the correct spot I knew I was still accurate.,
 

bobpbx

Piney
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It occurred to me this morning in the shower (just popped in my head) that during our Papoose explore in 2012 we did come upon several survey cuts in that area and took photos. At least one must be the boundary of Penn State Forest rectangle. Also, note on the second photo below there is a Haines sign on the south side up on a cedar tree. Note in the middle of the photos you can see the clearing at top of this hill in the distance, so these were likely north of Lost Lane Road.
 

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