All-Terrain Vehicle Problem

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SpecialEd70

New Member
Jan 19, 2021
7
17
Mamchester, NJ
I am sick of the horsecrap rationalizations here. Personal freedom my ass. People buy ATV's to ride into the forest. Why? Because they are sold by the moneyed interests and dealerships and the state looks the other way (and profits from it).

Building a ATV park to stop illegal ATV use is absurd. It will encourage more people to buy ATV's and that means more people will ride them illegally. Look at Gravelly Run.

A similar nonsensical argument is used by the NRA. More guns means a safer America.

I've said my piece, I am not changing anyone's mind on the site, so talk among

Bob, your thoughtful approach deserves thoughtful conversation and consideration. I don’t think this is the place that is most suitable for that, however. I would certainly be willing to have conversation with others in the realm who are also persuing practical solutions and will be willing to hear you out on the merits and political realities involved. The latter of course is the main challenge as we can hardly get political support to the fund the good things in the parks let alone make room for the mad max crowd.

this may be a simplistic representation, but it is how I think many view the idea of giving away park land to the mad max crew. View attachment 19638
How is this not suitab
Bob, your thoughtful approach deserves thoughtful conversation and consideration. I don’t think this is the place that is most suitable for that, however. I would certainly be willing to have conversation with others in the realm who are also persuing practical solutions and will be willing to hear you out on the merits and political realities involved. The latter of course is the main challenge as we can hardly get political support to the fund the good things in the parks let alone make room for the mad max crowd.

this may be a simplistic representation, but it is how I think many view the idea of giving away park land to the mad max crew. View attachment 19638
How is this forum not a suitable place for discussing solutions to the ATV problem?
Just curious as to why we can't debate this and offer a real solution to the state.

It's a win win as far as I'm concerned if you can set aside land. Fees from entrance would go towards the staff and upkeep of the area..

Enforcement would be essential being the state or private org. is offering an area to ride.
Double the fines in sensitive areas as well.

State can't cry about funds because they would be making mint off of all the illegal riders if they actually tried enforcing and unfortunately you do have those bad

To block access to half the roads to those who follow the laws is not a solution, meanwhile the "Mad Max's " will continue to rip it up while we bear the consequences
 

WaretownMike

Explorer
Jul 16, 2013
186
100
52
Waretown
Well, of course that's so. I'm angry about the trespassing, parking, and littering by ATV parties arriving in their trucks loaded with bikes, and maybe matresses too.
Definitely trucks and 4x4’s hauling beds couches and porta potties not ATV riders. I get it that they are easy to blame and probably participating in these parties, but they aren’t hauling all this trash out there.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,706
8,314
Definitely trucks and 4x4’s hauling beds couches and porta potties not ATV riders. I get it that they are easy to blame and probably participating in these parties, but they aren’t hauling all this trash out there.

The ATV's aren't but the trucks that bring them out there may be. But I think we all can agree most of them are just slobs in trucks.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,323
4,444
Pines; Bamber area
Definitely trucks and 4x4’s hauling beds couches and porta potties not ATV riders. I get it that they are easy to blame and probably participating in these parties, but they aren’t hauling all this trash out there.
Mike, I don't undertand why you are hitting on the matress spring and ignoring the bottles and cans and the obvious ramp launching pad for ATV's. What is your major point here? Yes, there is other dumping in the classic sense, but most of the ATV's are arriving in Trucks. It's not a stretch to think the driver might condsider doing double duty. A 2 for 1.

1680373229089.png
 
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Tony

Scout
Jul 30, 2015
69
43
72
Folsom
Bob, your thoughtful approach deserves thoughtful conversation and consideration. I don’t think this is the place that is most suitable for that, however. I would certainly be willing to have conversation with others in the realm who are also persuing practical solutions and will be willing to hear you out on the merits and political realities involved. The latter of course is the main challenge as we can hardly get political support to the fund the good things in the parks let alone make room for the mad max crowd.

this may be a simplistic representation, but it is how I think many view the idea of giving away park land to the mad max crew. View attachment 19638
Just go away Jason
 

Tony

Scout
Jul 30, 2015
69
43
72
Folsom
I've lived in the Pine Barrens for 35 years. I just installed a septic system using Dave Decker Contracting (a great contractor and highly recommended by the way). The system cost $18,000 and Dave finished about a month ago. A week after Dave finished, some nitwit drove a dirtbike over the carefully graded dirt that has been seeded and raked leaving deep ruts all over my backyard. A few days later he drove up my driveway into my backyard again, this time running over one of the 4 corner access PVC ports. I was forced to put a barrier between two cars and along the edge of the driveway.

So if an asshole drove into my backyard, into my newly graded septic installation, in the Headwater Village subdivision, you think ATV owners riding in the woods out of view of everyone but their buddies are going to follow the rules? But I guess, over time, the damage will repair itself, since nature repairs everything.

Hey, maybe my claim is "suspect" too Bob. You are welcome to come to my house and check it out anytime.
sounds like fakes news to me
 

Tony

Scout
Jul 30, 2015
69
43
72
Folsom
Mike, I don't undertand why you are hitting on the matress spring and ignoring the bottles and cans and the obvious ramp launching pad for ATV's. What is your major point here? Yes, there is other dumping in the classic sense, but most of the ATV's are arriving in Trucks. It's not a stretch to think the driver might condsider doing double duty. A 2 for 1.

View attachment 19643
that would be a rare event
 

Tony

Scout
Jul 30, 2015
69
43
72
Folsom
I've lived in the Pine Barrens for 35 years. I just installed a septic system using Dave Decker Contracting (a great contractor and highly recommended by the way). The system cost $18,000 and Dave finished about a month ago. A week after Dave finished, some nitwit drove a dirtbike over the carefully graded dirt that has been seeded and raked leaving deep ruts all over my backyard. A few days later he drove up my driveway into my backyard again, this time running over one of the 4 corner access PVC ports. I was forced to put a barrier between two cars and along the edge of the driveway.

So if an asshole drove into my backyard, into my newly graded septic installation, in the Headwater Village subdivision, you think ATV owners riding in the woods out of view of everyone but their buddies are going to follow the rules? But I guess, over time, the damage will repair itself, since nature repairs everything.

Hey, maybe my claim is "suspect" too Bob. You are welcome to come to my house and check it out anytime.
lt sounds you were targeted so you must have pissed someone off. No outlaw rider is just going to ride in someone back yard it makes no sense
 

TommyP

Explorer
Mar 30, 2022
192
183
Clementon
thomaspluck.substack.com
I've used this analogy before, but 25 years ago there weren't mountain biking trails in north NJ. We hikers hated the MTB people for using our trails. They would use them anyway, and yell "move!" when they saw hikers... some of us carried hiking poles in case someone tried to hit us. I was angry and didn't understand why they couldn't just hike.
Now there are trails specifically for mountain bikes. The bikers are more polite. I have a bike myself and use the bike-only trails. I see why they liked exploring trails on their bikes.

Yelling angrily that dirt bikers are breaking the law and expecting the country to confiscate their legally bought equipment because you do not like them, just shows how extreme your position is. And it's as tenable as my old position on mountain bikes.
Do I believe there are bad actors on ATVs? Yes. I've seen exactly ONE, on Elephant Swamp trail.
I've met ATVs and dirt bikers in Wharton and they have been on the trails, or in a sand pit, not "off road" and not playing chicken with us or doing anything untoward.
But I see evidence of bad behavior so I know it exists.
I don't believe in authoritarian measures to punish 90% of people for the actions of the bad 10% and I will never support it. So if you argue against a park for ATVs and argue for confiscation, you lost me. I'm not renewing my Pinelands Preservation Alliance membership, and I will be supporting Open Trails NJ and Tread Lightly instead.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,323
4,444
Pines; Bamber area
We conducted the Forked River Mountain Cleanup on Sunday. We did 3 areas. We got 17 tons, making the 30 year grand total 750 tons, or 1.5 million pounds.
As we were cleaning up the area of woods just north of Wells Mills (Bryant and Switch Roads), over the course of an hour 17 pickups came in where we were cleaning up. Each pickup was carrying at least 2 motorcycles or ATV's. They helped us clean up, which I give them credit for. But, this is an ongoing problem with few solutions.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
That's fantastic Bob, an astounding amount of garbage. The Waterford Twp. cleanup was Saturday, not sure of the amounts but nowhere near that. Did the motorcycles in the trucks have plates by chance? I already know the answer, just hoping is all!
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,534
1,066
Atco, NJ
We conducted the Forked River Mountain Cleanup on Sunday. We did 3 areas. We got 17 tons, making the 30 year grand total 750 tons, or 1.5 million pounds.
As we were cleaning up the area of woods just north of Wells Mills (Bryant and Switch Roads), over the course of an hour 17 pickups came in where we were cleaning up. Each pickup was carrying at least 2 motorcycles or ATV's. They helped us clean up, which I give them credit for. But, this is an ongoing problem with few solutions.
I don’t think there is any solution. Just 2 days ago I saw a quad cruising down route 30 in Winslow. He wasn’t even on the shoulder just riding in the right lane like he belonged there.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,323
4,444
Pines; Bamber area
That's fantastic Bob, an astounding amount of garbage. The Waterford Twp. cleanup was Saturday, not sure of the amounts but nowhere near that. Did the motorcycles in the trucks have plates by chance? I already know the answer, just hoping is all!
Because we were there, they never moved off the public road, and they never unloaded. The leader of the cleanup asked the ocean county sheriff to station men at the dirt road entrances off 532 and to advise them to go elsewhere. But the sherriff deputies unloaded atv's and did a little scouting around first, and meanwhile the trucks came in to offload. Then the deputies showed up while the ATV people were either sitting in their trucks or helping cleanup. They were told to move on, which they did.

Every one of the ATV people were very polite to us, and eager to show they were respectful of what we were doing. But.....
 
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