Apple opposes Judge's order to unlock shooter's phone

Discussion in 'Electronics Insanity' started by Teegate, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,843
    Likes Received:
    1,639
    Apple never had a problem, they had a doa lawsuit filed against them and the govt finally realized that. Apple will have a problem should the govt get the code they need. Then Apple will be the one filing a doa lawsuit, but the game will already be over.
     
  2. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-cellebrite-idUKKCN0WP17J

    "Israel's Cellebrite, a provider of mobile forensic software, is helping the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation's attempt to unlock an iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino, California shooters, the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper reported on Wednesday.
    ------
    Cellebrite officials declined to comment on the matter."
     
  3. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    Yes, I've heard the Israelis may have had a problem with a terrorist or two in the past. :)

    Amazing that they can get things done and still maintain their freedom, in stark contrast to our country, which holds on to the unreasonable belief that the King is about to behead them and that the government wants to take away all their guns and put them in prison camps.
     
  4. Ben Ruset

    Ben Ruset Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,294
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    :worms:
     
    PineBarrens Advocate likes this.
  5. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    http://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/28/doj-drops-lawsuit-against-apple/

    Applicant United States of America, by and through its counsel of record, the United States Attorney for the Central District of California, hereby files this status report called for by the Court's order issued on March 21, 2016.

    The government has now successfully accessed the data stored on Farook's iPhone and therefore no longer requires the assistance from Apple Inc. mandated by Court's Order Compelling Apple Inc. to Assist Agents in Search dated February 16, 2016.

    Accordingly, the government hereby requests that the Order Compelling Apple Inc. to Assist Agents in Search dated February 16, 2016 be vacated.

     
  6. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,843
    Likes Received:
    1,639
  7. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    Apple has egg on their face. They only made things worse. As one of the posters said (paraphrased here):

    When Apple resisted, and said it could not be done, every hacker in the world that had a bit of pride tried to get in...only making the phones less secure...and...the next time law enforcement wants to execute a legitimate warrant to obtain crucial crime information, Apple needs to find a way to give it to them in a way that satisfies them and protects our privacy as well.
     
    RednekF350 likes this.
  8. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    21,133
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    46er likes this.
  9. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    Two years have passed and the landscape has definitely changed...

    https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/12/graykey-iphone-unlocking-box-adoption/

    "GrayShift's recently publicized "GrayKey" box designed to crack locked iPhones is seeing wide adoption among police forces and federal agencies across the United States"

    This part is interesting

    "Current FBI Director Christopher Wray said in January at the International Conference on Cyber Security that law enforcement officials are facing a "Going Dark" challenge where an "enormous" number of cases rely on an electronic device. "We're increasingly unable to access that evidence, despite lawful authority to do so," said Wray.

    Motherboard's investigation into GrayShift, the GrayKey iPhone unlocking boxes, and other smartphone unlocking methods suggest that is not the case. The FBI uses the going dark debate to advocate for easier access to electronic devices through backdoors, but the seemingly readily available tools like GrayKey undermine these arguments."
     
    46er likes this.
  10. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,843
    Likes Received:
    1,639
    #70 46er, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2018
  11. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    Probably in a place that is a lot warmer than New Jersey. ;)
     
  12. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/16/iphone-cracking-six-digit-passcode/

    "Previous reports have suggested the GrayKey can crack 4-digit passcodes in a matter of hours and 6-digit passcodes in days, but as highlighted by VICE's Motherboard, cracking times for the GrayKey and other similar iPhone unlocking methods can potentially be even faster

    Matthew Green, assistant professor and cryptographer at John Hopkins Information Security Institute, said this morning on Twitter that with an exploit that disables Apple's passcode-guessing protections, a 4-digit passcode is crackable in 6.5 minutes on average, while a 6-digit passcode can be calculated in 11 hours."
     
  13. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    The new version of iOS will have a feature that disables USB access to the phone if it hasn't been unlocked in the past hour: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/04/ios-12-usb-access-disabled-by-default/

    "Law enforcement officials use USB access to an iPhone or an iPad to connect accessories like the GrayKey box, a tool that plugs into the Lightning port of an iPhone and uses the data connection in an attempt to brute force a passcode. With the new setting, an iPhone's Lightning port data connection will not work with the GrayKey box if it's been more than an hour since a passcode was entered, rendering it effectively useless unless used immediately after an iPhone is obtained from a suspect."
     
  14. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    Some more on this: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/13/technology/apple-iphone-police.html

    "News of Apple’s planned software update has begun spreading through security blogs and law enforcement circles — and many in investigative agencies are infuriated.
    _____________

    "The Indiana State Police said it unlocked 96 iPhones for various cases this year, each time with a warrant, using a $15,000 device it bought in March from a company called Grayshift."
    _____________

    "In the first 10 months of 2017, the Manhattan district attorney’s office said it had recovered and obtained warrants or consent to search 702 locked smartphones, two-thirds of which were iPhones. Smartphones running Google’s Android software have been generally easier to access, partly because many older devices lack encryption."
     
  15. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    21,133
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    I think the text below is the key sentence in that article. Next thing you know the creepy guy at work has one and your phone was missing for a few minutes.

    A Grayshift device sitting on a desk at a police station, he said, “could very easily leak out into the world.”
     
  16. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,843
    Likes Received:
    1,639
  17. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    That is an important decision, but it's different from the subject of this thread. The court ruling prevents cellular providers from sharing your location data with law enforcement unless they have a warrant. This data is stored on the cellular provider's computers.

    The Apple issue relates to what is stored locally on your phone (such as photos, text messages, etc) and whether the manufacturer of the phone can be compelled to help law enforcement defeat the password/encryption that protects it. Apple has allowed law enforcement access to personal information of phone users stored on Apple servers if they have a warrant. Specifically, they have provided copies of phone backups that are automatically created by Apple's iCloud feature.
     
    bobpbx likes this.
  18. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,843
    Likes Received:
    1,639
    Oh. Can't the owner of the Apple phone not back it up to apple or just delete the stuff that is? As you can see, I have little to no knowledge of apple products :D
     
  19. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,442
    Likes Received:
    990
    You do not need to turn on iCloud backups and you can delete them. I’m not sure if they are securely deleted however, and also don’t know if there are some laws that might require Apple to keep backup copies of data on their servers for a certain amount of time.

    Anyway, this thread started with the controversy about Apple refusing to help the government gain physical access to a terror suspect’s phone that was protected by a password and encryption. The Supreme Court case is about whether a cellular service provider (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc) can give data about your location without a court order.

    But the issues in the Apple controversy are much broader than just iPhones. It applies to any portable device, like an Android phone or Windows laptop, that requires a password to access. And it just keeps getting more complicated since phones are now using fingerprint readers and facial scanners instead of passcodes. Can the police force you to put your finger on your phone? I think law enforcement is currently of the opinion that they can, not sure if there are court decisions on this. With face recognition, all they would have to do is point the phone at you.

    Again, you are not forced to use fingerprints or face scans, you can turn it off in the settings and just use a passcode, but most people will opt for convenience over security. :)
     
  20. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,843
    Likes Received:
    1,639
    A tangled web for sure. No issues on my end, my phone does one thing, phone calls when I am travelling, and not very many of them. I think I still might even have some of the original minutes that came with my tracfone that keep rolling over ;)