Attention NJ Forest Fire Service

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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Well said Guy!

In regards to homes in Barnegat being burnt that is a risk of living in the barrens. Its the same as earthquakes in California/Japan, hurricanes in Florida, floods along rivers.

Again your posts contradict each other. You say that the people have learned through first hand knowledge and criticize book knowledge but then go on later to explain that they learned in a classroom. Many folks on here learned through first hand knowledge and also in a classroom, its a nice blend and extremely knowledgable.

You show a complete lack of knowledge and lack of observation if you think these roads will grow over. What roads cut in the pine barrens have grown over? Will a species along that wetland corridor be impacted because of a new road being inserted there? I think there might, did the forestry service consider that?

If you came in a expressed your thoughts professionally like you did in your final two paragraphs the reaction may have been different. But my guess is your in your early 20's and haven't learned that yet.
Nice pickup on that contradiction Dragon.I missed it myself:)
Al
As an afterthought "I've been called worse by better people" :)
 

manumuskin

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Jul 20, 2003
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I am glad I annoy you.....it's really tough to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person !!!! And Sir, you are CLEARLY NOT a piney. My guess that you are one of the most annoying people to lacal residants....a TRANSPLANT. I have done NOTHING wrong,, but individuals like yourself who "THINK" they are some self appointed sentiles of our forest lands are an absolute waste of time. Have you EVER in in your insignificant life volunteered to put YOUR life in danger??? Ever been in front of a 100' wall of flames to protect life and property??? Ever got up from the middle of a family event and been gone for days to protect our wild lands that you seem to care about??? I DOUBT IT, because you sir are a BIG MOUTH who feels justified by trying to bring GREAT people down to your level. I do not look foolish, you do. I've been there and done that as they say, and am humbled by the individuals that I have been honored to work with over the years, and VERY proud to call many of them my friends.

SO pleae, keep your feeble minded opinions to yourself !!!! And in the words of my beloved father...."Tis better to be thought an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove ALL doubt". I have NO doubts about you !!!!!!!
All I know Local is what you post and hesitate to make judgements based on that but in defense of the man your bashing here I seriously doubt you have an inkling of the knowledge of the Barrens this man has.When it comes to history and geographic layout of the barrens he can be matched by very few.He;s been exploring the barrens now for close to 40 years and while you may know some selected patches of woods better then He I'd say taking the whole region he could give you a drive around that would leave your head reeling and wondering where the heck you were.No he doesn't live in the Barrens but I don't live in Wva and I know there aren't any water moccasins there and most of the locals will swear there are,they also swear their here too and it ain't true.You don't have to be from the barrens to know em and love em.
a quote for you
"If I wanted and S--T outta you I'd squeeze your head"
:)
Al
 

manumuskin

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Jul 20, 2003
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Not everybody realizes that there are sensitivities at work here relating to other issues recently discussed on the forum. Guy’s recent post concerning ¼ mile spells this out.

Just the other day, I saw what must have been a large prescribed burn on Sandy Ridge Road. The burn result minimally extended from just north of Hawken Bridge for a few miles all the way to where the southernmost of the old cranberry bogs of Friendship meet Sandy Ridge.

Adjacent to these bogs at Friendship was once a path essentially impassable to motor vehicles (Ed’s photographs on the first page of this thread might be of this path/now road); it has now been bulldozed to a width which would enable a vehicle of any size to enter and use. With this cleared path now accessible via Sandy Ridge Road (a major thoroughfare), I have little doubt this will happen. My prediction is that this now severely damaged way will not in time restore to its original state -- unless something is done to prevent vehicular access.

One might surmise that this burn was prescribed to protect the sensitive, and beautiful, bog environment. Does anybody here know? But some of this beauty might have been permanently lost, and the area could very well experience further, repeated harm. Let’s do what we have to do to protect from fire, but let’s have a plan for afterwards to fix the damage done, and prevent more.

Very close to this new bulldozed road is possibly the best habitat for Pine Barrens tree frogs in Wharton State Forest. I sit out there at night and record them. What I saw, so close-by, saddened me.
Whip
I'm trying to figure out whose lif or property they were trying to protect along sandy ridge road?No one has lived within miles of that area since Friendship was abandoned in the 70's.
Now I can't see how anyone could argue that controlled burning is better for the ecology of the Barrens then wildfire.Wildfire is the way of nature and I don't think we can improve on it but we do need to protect lives and property.I'd say if you live in the barrens you take the risk of fire as has been pointed out.Buy fire insurance and keep all unreplaceable documents and family treasures small enough in a lock box that is fireproof.keep it where you know it is so you can grab it and run.Nothing you have is as important as your life and your family,next comes pets.Forget your great grand dads six foot clock.If your house is that important to you don't build it in the middle of the woods.If you do clear a proper firebreak on your own property.Realize that living in the woods opens you up to possible fire damage and accept it.The fire fighters will do what they can but that is limited.The whole barrens shouldn't become Longwood Gardens so you can live a risk free life.I like Longwood,but I prefer barrens.
Alfie
 

Kim

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Feb 28, 2009
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Local Vollie,

Are you single? I always had a thing for firemen, and you come across as a tasteful, classy gentleman. Maybe we could go out for drinks sometime.
 

46er

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Al, all ours are gray's. They love the cones, especially the new, green ones. It rains pine cone scales and husks around here. Up north we had the red's.
 

manumuskin

Piney
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Al, all ours are gray's. They love the cones, especially the new, green ones. It rains pine cone scales and husks around here. Up north we had the red's.
That is odd 46er,
I have never seen greys eat cones while I have seen reds tear em up and reds seem to be more prevalent in the pines while greys are in the oaks but if you say greays are eating cones it must be so.Have they taken to sassing you like reds definitely would?
Al
 

Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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Local Vollie,

Are you single? I always had a thing for firemen, and you come across as a tasteful, classy gentleman. Maybe we could go out for drinks sometime.
As usual, you join in to stir things up. You are an opportunist who adds nothing to this site.

Guy
 

swwit

Explorer
Apr 14, 2005
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You show a complete lack of knowledge and lack of observation if you think these roads will grow over. What roads cut in the pine barrens have grown over?
Chris, they do grow over "in time". It takes a long time but I've been down many roads in the 1970's that aren't passable anymore and you can't see as much as a trail. Roads that I used to herp on and hunt on. I don't agree with what they did here so I want to be clear on that. They could have made that cut much narrower.
 

46er

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That is odd 46er,
I have never seen greys eat cones while I have seen reds tear em up and reds seem to be more prevalent in the pines while greys are in the oaks but if you say greays are eating cones it must be so.Have they taken to sassing you like reds definitely would?
Al
No, they are typical gray's, cut and run when you approach too close. I took down 2 pines alongside the driveway just because of the mess they were making on the truck. Got tired of cleaning out the air vent and wiper blades every day. I have 6 nests in the tree's this year producing a bumper crop of young gray's. :bang: I've only seen one red where we are now and much prefer them over the gray.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
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You have no idea the pre-planning and meetings that go on behind the scenes with most every ecological agancy in this state BEFORE ANY line is plowed, or any road is made. HAS to be approved, or it doesn't happen. But you and the other posters would have known this had you actually researched this matter first.
Oh I do have an idea, again don't make assumptions or accusations without knowing your audience. I actually know many people and volunteer for the people on these types of agenceis. I have two permits to study pine barrens species corn snakes and timber rattlesnakes and areas are very often not surveyed for species. Often times they rely on records and no new research is done. The state tries their best but often times some great sights loaded with T/E species get destroyed(Kettle Run/Sanctuary) because of inadequate data or destruction of data. So trust me I know a good deal of the planning that goes on before these things take place, but I also know the politics behind these things as well and often times some pieces of data are ignored or vanish from the system or sometimes the people in charge of making the decisions quite honestly aren't that well informed.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
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I am not trying to be confrontational. I just do not understand your point of view. Why is this wrong-headed and/or stupid??? These firebreaks are very instrumental during prescribed burning, and the roads make for quick access for early intervention during a wildland fire.

I truly understand that no one wants easy access for firestarters, or to destroy pristine forest. UNFORTUNATELY, it is a necessary evil in good fire prevention that these plowlines and roads are cxreated. I read with great interest the reply from a "high level firewarden" that the FFS does their best to remain good stewards for NJ forests. I can personally attest to that. NO ONE wants to see wildland destroyed or ruined. Thats why this service exists. Controlled burning helps eliminate overgrowth and the chances for a wildland fire to become a conflagration (i.e. 1963 when NJ lost over 160,000 acres). This was NOT acceptable, and prescribed burning came to the forefront. I certainly don't want to drive through the woods I've grown up in and see a bunch of burnt twigs.

If everyone really wanted to focus on something worthwhile on this site, work to preserve the pinelands from the ever increasing homes being built one by one in the pines. Or, the losing the watershed in the pines. It is a beautiful place, and we all need to work to together to make sure it is there for generations to come.
Yo Vollie you get a piece before you wrote this man you weren't pretty bent out of shape before this post.

One question I don't like seeing burnt forest either but I thought the burning is neccesary in order for it to remain the pine barrens in the future? I've been told by a well known conservationist that fires like the one in the pygmy pines is short term loss for long term gain, is he wrong? Seems to me that the prescribed burns don't fully get the job done you know?
 

local vollie

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Apr 6, 2011
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Anytime

All I know Local is what you post and hesitate to make judgements based on that but in defense of the man your bashing here I seriously doubt you have an inkling of the knowledge of the Barrens this man has.When it comes to history and geographic layout of the barrens he can be matched by very few.He;s been exploring the barrens now for close to 40 years and while you may know some selected patches of woods better then He I'd say taking the whole region he could give you a drive around that would leave your head reeling and wondering where the heck you were.No he doesn't live in the Barrens but I don't live in Wva and I know there aren't any water moccasins there and most of the locals will swear there are,they also swear their here too and it ain't true.You don't have to be from the barrens to know em and love em.
a quote for you
"If I wanted and S--T outta you I'd squeeze your head"
:)l
ANYTIME you think you are man enough to squeeze my head, I'll be happy to oblige. AND, I serously doubt that this individual would leave my head reeling, as you stated, as to where I might be in the Pines. I know 'em like the back of my hand, and have spent thousands of hours, walking and driving through them. Before you go threatening people, you may want to know who your adversary is. I assure you, you don't want to open this Pandors Box . I've come to realize that this forum should be re-labeled the "MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY" by the 4 or 5 people who post hundreds, or even thousands, of posts on here. Your group believes that their way is the only way to do things. In an earlier post, someone posted the link to the Division of Parks and Forestry, WHOSE PANEL of professional ENVIROMENTALISTS review each and every action, BEFORE it takes place, and must approve them first. My complaint is this, STOP BASHING the guys who perform the work in the field, and address your annoyance to the Dept. itself !!! ENOUGH SAID !!!
 

local vollie

Scout
Apr 6, 2011
44
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Thanks

Local Vollie,

Are you single? I always had a thing for firemen, and you come across as a tasteful, classy gentleman. Maybe we could go out for drinks sometime.
MY, MY, This certainly caught me off guard. Thank you for the kind words, however I don't believe that my wife would be too appreciative. I may be alot of things, but a cheater is not one of them. Good luck with the firefighter of your dreams, when you find him !!!
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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No, they are typical gray's, cut and run when you approach too close. I took down 2 pines alongside the driveway just because of the mess they were making on the truck. Got tired of cleaning out the air vent and wiper blades every day. I have 6 nests in the tree's this year producing a bumper crop of young gray's. :bang: I've only seen one red where we are now and much prefer them over the gray.
We did a bird feeding experiment last year.We started feeding with sunflower seed,suet feeders for woodpeckers,nyler seed and finch feeders and hummingbird feeders with sugar water.we also started feeding the ample grey squirrel population so as to bribe them away from the bird see.we gave them peanuts by the bagful.the jays also loved the peanuts too.The squirrels would hurry around and bury all the peanuts,then they would eat all the sunflower seeds.they would then yank and chew on the suet feeder cages till they picked the cake apart or broke open the cage,then they chewed holes in the finch feeders for the thistle seed and then finally chewed holes in the hummer feeders and drank all the sugar water.I once snukl up on a squirrel sitting on a platform i made to keep squirrels off.He jumped eight feet straight out from a tree trunkl to get on this platform.I got up to him face level and when he turned around and seen my face six inches from his he went spastic.He actually crapped himself as he sailed wildly into space.There were over 20 squirrels in the yard at one time.We gave up.They weren't happy to share,they wanted it all.I now hate squirrels,used to like em.
Al
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
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ANYTIME you think you are man enough to squeeze my head, I'll be happy to oblige. AND, I serously doubt that this individual would leave my head reeling, as you stated, as to where I might be in the Pines. I know 'em like the back of my hand, and have spent thousands of hours, walking and driving through them. Before you go threatening people, you may want to know who your adversary is. I assure you, you don't want to open this Pandors Box . I've come to realize that this forum should be re-labeled the "MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY" by the 4 or 5 people who post hundreds, or even thousands, of posts on here. Your group believes that their way is the only way to do things. In an earlier post, someone posted the link to the Division of Parks and Forestry, WHOSE PANEL of professional ENVIROMENTALISTS review each and every action, BEFORE it takes place, and must approve them first. My complaint is this, STOP BASHING the guys who perform the work in the field, and address your annoyance to the Dept. itself !!! ENOUGH SAID !!!
You know,If I'd of wanted to hear it from an A__hole I'd of Farted.
I'm only man enough on days I'm Alfie,but I'm also woman enough on days I'm Alfreda
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
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...when he turned around and seen my face six inches from his he went spastic.He actually crapped himself as he sailed wildly into space.
LOL!

Al, remember the time we went on the Chatsworth North Hike, and after 6 miles in the woods, with all of us together, including Buddy....he suddenly growled at you when you crossed the road to get in the car? It must have been the shock of seeing you after not seeing you for a couple minutes.

:rofl:
 

46er

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Al, I was once almost killed by a squirrel. I was up on a ladder cleaning a nesting box out the Nuthatches use. Put my hand on the box to steady myself, and this 'THING' jumped out, ran down my arm and jumped from my shoulder. Fell off the ladder, ladder fell on me. Seems I had disturbed one of the squirrel air guard members. He had soared to an oak and when I approached he took off again. Nice to get a good daylight view of one, but my BP must have been up around 450 :rofl: His was probably up around 1000. I always bang on the nestboxes now.
 

manumuskin

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Jul 20, 2003
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LOL!

Al, remember the time we went on the Chatsworth North Hike, and after 6 miles in the woods, with all of us together, including Buddy....he suddenly growled at you when you crossed the road to get in the car? It must have been the shock of seeing you after not seeing you for a couple minutes.

:rofl:
Bob
I remember the hike and I remember the rain and I remember Buddy but I don't remember him growling at me.Dogs usually love me,I must of needed a bath.After six miles in the rain i probably smelled worse then he did:)
Al