Bob, did you get the tags of the off-roaders and call them in to the state police or state forest? (I assume you are referring to kids driving 4WD trucks or jeeps.) I report offenders every time I can get a tag, and if more people would do this, it would help law enforcement catch some of them. Everybody has a cell phone these days.
Chatsworth Atv park
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No Russ, I did not. I did not see anybody in the bog. Even if I had I would have just made them get out of the bog. I don't report anybody riding. I feel its the job of the police to do that.
BobNJ1979: if I go this weekend I'll post by Friday so anyone can come if they care to.
Actually its not difficult at all. Many if not most of the established roads can hold water for quite a while. Hitting puddles at 20mph can made things appear worse than they really are.
The Ten Mile Hollow area could use a good cleanup too. That area was nasty the last time i was there.
Jim
Jim
I know they hold water, and I have been through some deep holes, but you didn't see this kid's Jeep. I realize that many of the mud holes these guys play in are on the back roads, and I've seen some of those places. Also sand hollows, pits, etc. But there are lots of them that look for bogs too.
I saw some damage to a wet lying area, on the left hand side of East Stokes Road... since then, the state has put up some bollards or posts (whatever you wanna call it).. I reported it to a ranger (while on my legal, registered, insured dirt bike), a nice and very concerned woman.. she said, point blank "those jeeps and 4 wheelers cause so much damage out here, not you little guys"..
if the PPA would learn to work w/ ppl other than themselves (and trust ppl who aren't in their "inner circle"), maybe they would accomplish something.. :jeffd: but i doubt that will ever happen
if the PPA would learn to work w/ ppl other than themselves (and trust ppl who aren't in their "inner circle"), maybe they would accomplish something.. :jeffd: but i doubt that will ever happen
What do you mean trust people that aren't in their inner circle?
To be fair, the PPA isn't the only group that's trying to get ORV riders out of the pines, and even then, they're the most moderate group that I've seen. The fact that Russ is here posting at all means that they want to get the message out, and at least interested in dialog.
Riders need to be open minded, too.
Be a little more specific? Who should we be working with that we aren't working with? Who should we be trusting that we aren't trusting?
i agree russell - it's all our job to report illegal activity. and you can bet i would..
i truly believe, if an organized trail system (using existing trails) were implemented in the state forests, that's the best solution. the riding community would be happy to organize and enforce it (i'm sure).. other states have done it - it works fine, preserves land and makes the state money.. "one group" is not going to get 100% of their way in any situation.. not the ppa, not the riders, no one..
by the way, what is the ppa's position on horse back riders in the pine barrens ?
i truly believe, if an organized trail system (using existing trails) were implemented in the state forests, that's the best solution. the riding community would be happy to organize and enforce it (i'm sure).. other states have done it - it works fine, preserves land and makes the state money.. "one group" is not going to get 100% of their way in any situation.. not the ppa, not the riders, no one..
by the way, what is the ppa's position on horse back riders in the pine barrens ?
I'd be angry and frustrated too if I were in your situation. But what do you want PPA to do? (Or not do!)
I know, a lot of riders think this is the way to go. Question is, does aybody else think this is a good way to go?
Horses? Well, they don't present the same level of problems, and we don't hear much of a public outcry, but we have had some users asking us to address certain issues, and he have tried to get the state forest people to pay attention to horse manure being shovelled out in parking areas and horse manure all over canoe launch sites.
My complaint with the horse people is that if I am driving along in my Jeep I get very nervous about accidentally spooking their animals. I was hiking and I came across a horseback rider and I guess I spooked the horse and it almost threw the rider.
I get nervous when I come up by them in my Jeep.
I get nervous when I come up by them in my Jeep.
the best advice I have (about horses), is to shutdown your engine and let the horse riders decide what needs to be done. we (riding) have never had a problem w/ the horse ppl.. they're always very nice to us, and us to them..
so what's the PPA's stance on Mountain bikes in the state forests ?
so what's the PPA's stance on Mountain bikes in the state forests ?
Hmmm.....6 for a jeep or truck, only me for a quad. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I am going back over the weekend to gather more photos of junk the FRMC will be cleaning up on the yearly cleanup in April, so I'll be looking the area over more closely. What is the width of the jeep or truck track? Would my toyota do for comparison?
This is what I found Sunday. The first shot is the homeplace. There were three truckloads of offroaders there with a fire buring in the background. Its lovely, just friggin lovely.
by the north branch, 3 miles from a paved road.
I have to agree with Bobnj1979, By reason of logistics, riders can't be illegal dumpers. The exception is if they had this garbage in those trucks. If that was they case they are dumpers who are also off roaders.
There are alot of irresponsible and destructive people out there. It is important that we don't let their behavior and actions compromise our freedom and happiness.
Extra law enforcement is not practical and ineffective. Policy and law have absolutely no effect on these people either. The best we can do is education.
Jeff
if i had to guess, i'd say they probably wouldn't care. i don't think you'd really be able to tear up a bog with a mountain bike.
I don't think we have any major issues with them. A small scale problem is that they aren't supposed to use the Batona Trail, but they do.
I think that the big truck drivers are biggest problem all around. Everybody ought to be coming down on them. One advantage we have in this case, is that the vehicles are usually identifiable.
My view is that we must have law, policy, and enforcement, and that all of these things can be effective, especially if the public will help law enforcement officials apprehend the offenders. Education is equally important, but I have met plenty of people who refuse to become educated in spite of every opportunity, and the only way to keep them from compromising our freedoms and happiness is to hit them in the pocketbook, take away their toys, and, if necessary, throw them in jail.
Russell, I think you must be describing the vast minority there. I'm gonna sit quiet on this for awhile, but i agree that public assistance in law enforcement is critical. you can bet, if i see a big truck bogging in a swamp, i'm gonna get my butt over to the ranger station asap.. and i'm getting there a lot quicker (and safely) than anyone on foot or a car. i've reported illegal camping and camp fires before (one was near a wet area behind high crossing - sorry if that was anyone on here - they left some nice trash too).. brought the rangers out, but not sure what ever happened.
and our riding club has very good relations w/ the horse ppl riding out there. so let's not say they want us gone as well, cause that would just be horse ****.. play nice children.
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