Closed to Mortorized Vehicles

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46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,128
Coastal NJ
Published in August 2000.

lower-forge-wsf.jpg
 

VP UXBNJ

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
5
0
Oh no! Not again...

I have some questions - who is actually posting this area? It appears to me a "coalition" or "pact" is the culprit? Who gave them the authority to post the STATE owned property?

Folks, this area has been the center of attention (by a few loud voices) to be banned from all activity; except for their own pleasure... How is that fair? Should everyone be penalized for the few that destroy the area? That doesn’t seen fair to me. I would think the forestry division would patrol the area in the off hours (or seek the help from the NJSP) to site such criminal activities, than to shut it down totally. To be honest, I would ignore any posting that was not officially posted by the state as a coalition does not have the right to make law!

Let’s hear it…
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
42
lindenwold
I have some questions - who is actually posting this area? It appears to me a "coalition" or "pact" is the culprit? Who gave them the authority to post the STATE owned property?

Folks, this area has been the center of attention (by a few loud voices) to be banned from all activity; except for their own pleasure... How is that fair? Should everyone be penalized for the few that destroy the area? That doesn’t seen fair to me. I would think the forestry division would patrol the area in the off hours (or seek the help from the NJSP) to site such criminal activities, than to shut it down totally. To be honest, I would ignore any posting that was not officially posted by the state as a coalition does not have the right to make law!

Let’s hear it…
you need to read previous posts before you post up something like that , THE SIGNS ARE PUT UP BY THE SUPER INTENDANT OF WHARTON HIMSELF with volunteers there to assist him , have fun ignoreing the signs you will be fined the same way as anyone back there actually 4 wheeling ,you were never allowed to drive motor vehicle in that area to begin with , and we are a coalition to help and no way is the njtlc any form of mulisha to go out there and do what they want and post what they want
 

kayak karl

Explorer
Sep 18, 2008
495
79
66
Swedesboro, NJ
Hike

im hiking the Batona starting fri AM. buttonwood and batona camps. ill take pic's as i go through that area. i have no opinion on this yet, but am following the thread.
 

VP UXBNJ

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
5
0
you need to read previous posts before you post up something like that , THE SIGNS ARE PUT UP BY THE SUPER INTENDANT OF WHARTON HIMSELF with volunteers there to assist him , have fun ignoreing the signs you will be fined the same way as anyone back there actually 4 wheeling ,you were never allowed to drive motor vehicle in that area to begin with , and we are a coalition to help and no way is the njtlc any form of mulisha to go out there and do what they want and post what they want


Stop yelling at me - I'm sensative :D

So, what you are saying is that road (that is not posted) is not supposed to be used by motor vehicles?
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,435
1,380
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
i know the signs wont last , but if we stay up to date on them and people will see the signs replaced as fast as they took em down they might start getting the idea that maybe they shouldnt be there and realize that the area is actually being watched now , were making a legit effort wich is a lot more then anyone else can say that sits behind a keyboard all day just crying about everything

Maybe it's because us folks crying behind our keyboards realize that posting signs is not going to do anything, and are calling folks out for thinking that they will. The only real solution is enforcement, and nobody is giving any good explanations on why there aren't (and haven't been) rangers out there patrolling.
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
42
lindenwold
It appears to say that Hay was already closed to motorized traffic between Fire Line and Hampton as of its publication date in 2000. So... Hay was not open from the furnace to Quaker Bridge? If not, then what are we losing here?
thats the thing , nothing is being lost in addition to what was already marked as no motor vehicles , all the new signs are replacing old ones and marking newer made trails leading into and only to 1/4 mile area , why is that so hard for people comprehend ??
 

kayak karl

Explorer
Sep 18, 2008
495
79
66
Swedesboro, NJ
thats the thing , nothing is being lost in addition to what was already marked as no motor vehicles , all the new signs are replacing old ones and marking newer made trails leading into and only to 1/4 mile area , why is that so hard for people comprehend ??
i hiked lower forge/batona 5 times this year. each time a different way. i never saw no vehicle signs and never remember one north of lower forge since the 70's? i have trouble comprehending things, so I am one of the people you must be talking about, because you lost me...............
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
42
lindenwold
i hiked lower forge/batona 5 times this year. each time a different way. i never saw no vehicle signs and never remember one north of lower forge since the 70's? i have trouble comprehending things, so I am one of the people you must be talking about, because you lost me...............
just because you didnt see a sign it doesnt mean you were allowed there , signs have been ripped down and years ago people were alot more respectful and the issue wasnt as big of a problem , if i own a peice of land and you happen to drive by it is ok if you tresspass on my property just because there isnt a sign ?

and ben the signs are being reput up now to give people a fair warning who dont know better and to give the ranger a legit guide line so there is no argument from the general public if they are or arent allowed there when tickets are issued
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,128
Coastal NJ
and ben the signs are being reput up now to give people a fair warning who dont know better and to give the ranger a legit guide line so there is no argument from the general public if they are or arent allowed there when tickets are issued

Ignorance of the law is not a defense. :rolleyes: Many have tried. If you need proof, go urinate in public and when you get the summons, tell the judge there was no sign posted. Let us know how many days you get.

Last post for me on this thread.
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
42
lindenwold
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. :rolleyes: Many have tried. If you need proof, go urinate in public and when you get the summons, tell the judge there was no sign posted. Let us know how many days you get.

Last post for me on this thread.
come on now really ? thats just common sense , if your out in the woods and theres a lot of newer people that explore the pines and apprently by this thread a bunch of veterans to the pines werent aware of place you couldnt drive , just driving thru the woods and seeing a wide open trail thats not posted you would assume you could drive down it, simply posting signs is fair warning , every other state park has gates and such clearly stating no motor vehicles , not many places in the middle of wharton is there any legit signage of NMV
 

MarkBNJ

Piney
Jun 17, 2007
1,875
70
Long Valley, NJ
www.markbetz.net
i hiked lower forge/batona 5 times this year. each time a different way. i never saw no vehicle signs and never remember one north of lower forge since the 70's? i have trouble comprehending things, so I am one of the people you must be talking about, because you lost me...............

There's no real debate as far as I can see. There are no historical through roads in the marked area other than Hay, and the 1970 map shows that Hay was designated as no vehicles at that time. In the 1995 aerial there are no roads at all south of the tracks between High Crossing and Hay Rd. Clearly all those roads south of the tracks were created by either wheelers or the forestry guys, and we don't have motorized rights of access to them. Hay Rd. is historical, but obviously they took whatever steps they needed to 40 years ago to mark it off-limits. I don't think we can dispute that now.

I'm firmly on the access-maintenance side of the fence here, but I don't think we're helping ourselves by not addressing the real picture. This closure does not remove right of access to one historically accessible road, as far as I can see. So someone tell me where I'm wrong.
 

Greg OBrien

Scout
Mar 22, 2011
39
25
Thanks for posting that map 46er - that clarified it for me! I knew some of the roads have been part of the wilderness area for a long time, but I wasn't sure if Hay Road was one of them.


It's pretty much all been said :bear:and all the information is here for anyone that wants to read through this thread.

I'm not posting to it anymore - but PLEASE update us if you happen to see Park Police in the area or hear of anyone getting a ticket...

The lines have been drawn, the lines have been discussed, the lines have been defended, but the lines have yet to be :siren:ENFORCED:siren:
 

dogg57

Piney
Jan 22, 2007
2,912
373
Southern NJ
southjerseyphotos.com
This is a Quote from NJTLC page from Devilstoy





xx.png
Re: Project #1 complete/started
« Reply #29 Today at 11:00am »[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE] the njpb forums just never seem to stop and people just have no common sense and fail to see to anything else then what they want to ,this is a recent post on there

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I have some questions - who is actually posting this area? It appears to me a "coalition" or "pact" is the culprit? Who gave them the authority to post the STATE owned property

Folks, this area has been the center of attention (by a few loud voices) to be banned from all activity; except for their own pleasure... How is that fair? Should everyone be penalized for the few that destroy the area? That doesn’t seen fair to me. I would think the forestry division would patrol the area in the off hours (or seek the help from the NJSP) to site such criminal activities, than to shut it down totally. To be honest, I would ignore any posting that was not officially posted by the state as a coalition does not have the right to make law!
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
42
lindenwold
This is a Quote from NJTLC page from Devilstoy





xx.png
Re: Project #1 complete/started
« Reply #29 Today at 11:00am »[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]the njpb forums just never seem to stop and people just have no common sense and fail to see to anything else then what they want to ,this is a recent post on there

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have some questions - who is actually posting this area? It appears to me a "coalition" or "pact" is the culprit? Who gave them the authority to post the STATE owned property

Folks, this area has been the center of attention (by a few loud voices) to be banned from all activity; except for their own pleasure... How is that fair? Should everyone be penalized for the few that destroy the area? That doesn’t seen fair to me. I would think the forestry division would patrol the area in the off hours (or seek the help from the NJSP) to site such criminal activities, than to shut it down totally. To be honest, I would ignore any posting that was not officially posted by the state as a coalition does not have the right to make law!

wow congrats . i already apologized for misunderstanding that , and i dont say anything on there i wouldnt say on here , so if think your cool for calling me out on something , you can think again , people need to open there eyes and quit arguing over the same things time and time again , im really surprised people on here are crying more about the situation then anyone on a 4x4 website
 
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