DEP Announces Virtual Public Meeting to Launch Wharton State Forest Visitor and Vehicle Use Survey
- Thread starter RednekF350
- Start date
I am intensely disgusted with the people who pushed the state into this, I really am. It was not their business to promote this, and the problem is way overblown for Wharton. You sold the rest of us down the river.
Yes, there is a quota for the yearly permit to drive on the beach. More then likely they are already sold out. I believe there is a special three day permit. Ever since 1971 when I started surf fishing in the Park, there has always been a entrance fee. I being over 62, I get in free. So Bob; go get your Senior Pass so you can search for Seabeach Amaranth. (But don't walk on the dunes) Over the past few years, people there able to drop off their Christmas trees at the park. But not this year due to dune replenishment of this rare plant.
A Tabernacle resident talks to a committee member about opposing the Wharton plan like other townships and the committee member instead asks for a resolution supporting the plan. 
They then go on to mention support of the survey... Did they not know the survey was already over?
The best part...
But it passed anyway
They then go on to mention support of the survey... Did they not know the survey was already over?
The best part...
But it passed anyway
A Tabernacle resident talks to a committee member about opposing the Wharton plan like other townships and the committee member instead asks for a resolution supporting the plan.
You picked out the most ironic part of this situation. I know for a fact AT LEAST 10 residents contacted them asking to pass a resolution against the State’s plans. My question then was: did 11 or more residents ask them to pass a resolution in support of the State’s plan? If not, then whose interests are they operating in?
Hey Bob, I’m adding here because I understand that not everybody has the access or time to look into this issue like I have. If you think there isn’t a huge problem at the moment, it’s because a lot of hard work by a lot of people including folks on this forum have made it like that. However the problem is still out there, it’s in commercials, on social media, and this weekend there is a huge illegal event scheduled for Wharton that I have alerted the State to. They don’t have anyone following these channels.
Hundreds of off-road type enthusiasts are planning to descend on Wharton from New York, Pa, and other surrounding states. No permits were sought and none were given. Time will tell if Park Police even have the capability to deal with it, but the threat of thousands of people surrounding the Pine Barrens and targeting it as an ORV destination is enormous. I imagine you know what things can look like in Lacey at times. I don’t want to see that everywhere and I doubt you do either!
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So. A permit system would solve it? I don’t think so. It would just make it legal. A pay to play system would encourage outsiders to go to Wharton instead of going to Lacey where they are cracking down. Look at how much money the state could make from that event alone. A permit system is nothing more then an “entrance fee” and money grab.
From Joshua Wilson's Facebook page: "We are once again kicking of the new year with our annual pine barrens run in the wharton state forest. We will be meeting up at .... please bring a full tank of gas and a lunch as its about a 70 mile run through all the different abandoned towns and historical locations..."
I had an argument with a State Trooper on Facebook who told me that large groups have as much right to drive Wharton as I do.
What is the impact on sand roads of 1,000 vehicles driving 70 miles through Wharton Forest?
They aren't driving there to look for property markers, birdwatch, hike, observe nature, take photographs, trail run, bicycle...
Take a look at the leader's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/reel/599022545383328
I had an argument with a State Trooper on Facebook who told me that large groups have as much right to drive Wharton as I do.
What is the impact on sand roads of 1,000 vehicles driving 70 miles through Wharton Forest?
They aren't driving there to look for property markers, birdwatch, hike, observe nature, take photographs, trail run, bicycle...
Take a look at the leader's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/reel/599022545383328
That’s my point exactly. Sell permits and as long as they stay on the roads there’s nothing that will be done. Roads can be torn up just get a permit and your good to go. I only watched the first part of that video. He stayed on the road. No violation there in the eyes of the law. A permit will just invite more to come and make it worse but give the state another source of income.
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I have no problem creating conditions and rules for large groups over, say, 30 vehicles, but even so, they will be on roads. Closing roads to locals BECAUSE of usage by large groups is not right. It's not just the permit, which I said before I was not totally against, but all the signals from your group is that you are still hell-bent on closing roads.
I am genuinely as open-minded about this as I can be, but doesn't this illustrate that a permit system isn't needed? This is already illegal activity (presumably this group would have needed to request and be issued a Special Use Permit for a large gathering like this). Park Police could issue citations to the organizers or participants with the laws we have today, right? So what does adding a permit system do to help here? I would really like to understand.
3rd Annual NEORC winter pines run
Sports event in Shamong, NJ by Joshua Wilson on Saturday, January 14 2023 with 1K people interested and 302 people going. 80 posts in the discussion.
www.facebook.com
people coming from Delaware Water Gap and scranton too. Thanks social media
I wonder about that... Am not interested enough to read the stuff on FaceBook, but from what has been posted it sounds more like a "flash mob" event as opposed to one that is backed by a "real" organization. Have the laws caught up with the social media era? Could the person who originally posted that be held liable for organizing an event without a permit?
BTW, I see from the screenshot that they are using ONX maps.
I wonder about that... Am not interested enough to read the stuff on FaceBook, but from what has been posted it sounds more like a "flash mob" event as opposed to one that is backed by a "real" organization. Have the laws caught up with the social media era?
BTW, I see from the screenshot that they are using ONX maps.
NJAC §7:2-3.4(e):
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and I don't know the full legal definitions of terms like "rally" and "exhibition," but this seems relevant. "Person or organization" sounds fairly broad.
Let's just be clear, the Parks Department and maybe NJDEP are clueless when it comes to communications. They floated a general idea without any specifics, leading people to conclude a worst-case scenario. I among others warned them about much of what has been discussed as downsides on this thread, but I can't help people that don't want to be helped! I also suggested a model that Michigan uses that I think could be supportable because it is cheap, does not create a special user class, and supports park funding state wide. I have no inside knowledge about how they are specifically thinking about that vague permit idea at this point or if it will even happen at all.
Here are the full comments I helped put together for Pinelands Alliance alongside folks from NJ Conservation Foundation for the recent survey. I think they mirror most of the approaches suggested here. We may have specific differences in specific areas, you are free to review the comments and linked files and we can discuss.
"
This link https://drive.google.com/.../1C6eHP0B1SpUuS.../view... contains a GIS file that has suggestions for what areas should be open only to hiking, biking, horseback riding, and other non-motorized uses.This can be uploaded on the Wharton State Forest survey if you so choose. You can view this file on Google Earth or online at Google Maps by using the link at the end of this email.
- Near the end of the survey, there is a section labeled
In this section, there is an option to select " attaching your own data or map" - Select this option and then upload the linked zip file
That selection also opens up a dialogue box with a prompt to "How could your concerns be addressed?" You can use these recommended comments for this section
"The attached KMZ file depicts areas where only activities like walking, biking, horseback riding, and other non-motorized recreational forms should be permitted. I also enjoy exploring a variety of dirt roads shown on the topographic maps as depicted by the U.S. Geological Survey and use them for sightseeing, accessing specific wildlife areas, paddling, and hiking. However, there are also destructive activities occurring in these same areas such as illegal dumping, poaching, illegal off-road vehicle use, and illegal fires that cause immense damage to natural habitats, historic sites, designated trails, and even the road infrastructure itself. This file depicts areas that contain some of the most sensitive habitats in the State Forest and they must be protected.
I am asking for strict, effective, and steadfast enforcement of existing federal and state regulations. We also need more officers patrolling more areas more often. Warnings should never be issued for illegal off-road vehicle use. The corps of Conservation Officers should be expanded greatly and given the direction to patrol the backcountry in state park areas as well as wildlife management areas. We need effective enforcement.
We need better communications with the public and more front-facing employees like visitor services naturalists and maintenance workers. Naturalists and maintenance workers need full-time hours and better pay. We need to compensate these professionals appropriately for their critically important work.
If a permit system is established for state land, it should be low-cost and cover a broad range of activities. Michigan State Parks has a form of this approach called a “recreation passport” that could be a model for New Jersey. For just $17 a year, one receives a license plate sticker that authorizes access to a variety of state-owned lands and facilities such as camping areas, swimming areas, boat launches, state forest dirt roads, hiking trails, and historic sites."
Note: If you have already taken this survey, you can ask a friend or family member on a different workstation to take the survey themselves. The survey will not let you fill it out again on the same device.
Links:
Wharton State Forest Official Map Survey:https://survey123.arcgis.com/share/688047d6320a4708841cff9cf47c59db?portalUrl=https://njdep.maps.arcgis.com
Recording of Wharton State Forest Virtual Tour:https://vimeo.com/764255181
Explore the KMZ with suggested areas open only to non-motorized uses: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit...
and finally, join the campaign to Fix Our Parks https://www.fixourparksnj.org/join-the-campaign"
Nor am I!
But I still wonder about this in the social media era... specifically the word "conduct". If you share something on Facebook are you "conducting" an event?I think a person who organizes a "flash mob" may have some freedom of speech protection, and this may still be a gray area which is why some localities have evidently enacted laws to address it.
I can't see much of the southern part, but the northern part looks like existing major roads. Likely not that big of a deal. But I reserve comment until I see a detailed map.
Isn't this canceled? I thought there was push back and plans had to change.