Fix Our Parks

G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
51
Burlington County
Good luck. You will need it.
I won't wish anyone "good luck," because I don't think the situation has anything to do with luck. It has to do with citizens insisting that the lands they paid for should be maintained for their ecological values and for responsible, non-destructive forms of recreation. I rather wish for everyone an open mind, a focus on the facts and science, and good critical thinking. Looking forward to working with you all.
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
The old adage is history repeats itself, and the way this was handled in the past created a huge sense of mistrust of those "looking out" for their fellow man in these instances
 
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NJCoastal

Scout
Oct 19, 2021
43
19
69
Mount Laurel, NJ
I won't wish anyone "good luck," because I don't think the situation has anything to do with luck. It has to do with citizens insisting that the lands they paid for should be maintained for their ecological values and for responsible, non-destructive forms of recreation. I rather wish for everyone an open mind, a focus on the facts and science, and good critical thinking. Looking forward to working with you all.
Ditto! We had a healthy balance of questions and answers during our conversation yesterday. To learn is essential and the continuous dialogue will allow us to discover like-minded individuals who can share ideas, with the hope of being able to influence the outcomes. Ships require small rudders for proper navigation.
 
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G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
51
Burlington County
The old adage is history repeats itself, and the way this was handled in the past created a huge sense of mistrust of those "looking out" for their fellow man in these instances
Understood! But it's also possible to make a fresh start, and not repeat the past. It seems to me the problem in the past was too many roads being closed or being proposed to be closed, with not enough public participation in the decision-making. But many of the lanes of motorized travel out there were never supposed to become public thoroughfares (bulldozed lanes for specific fire-fighting, for example) or were created illegally. I hope no one is arguing that we shouldn't close those kinds of "roads."
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
Understood! But it's also possible to make a fresh start, and not repeat the past. It seems to me the problem in the past was too many roads being closed or being proposed to be closed, with not enough public participation in the decision-making. But many of the lanes of motorized travel out there were never supposed to become public thoroughfares (bulldozed lanes for specific fire-fighting, for example) or were created illegally. I hope no one is arguing that we shouldn't close those kinds of "roads."
Remains to be seen, Russ. The integrity of the groups and people leading the charge is in question here and may take time and real proof that things have changed. It would be nice if everyone could play well in the sandbox, I'm sure folks here and other places are all for working together, as long as it is truly that and not the influenced exclusionary views and actions of the past.
 

G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
51
Burlington County
Remains to be seen, Russ. The integrity of the groups and people leading the charge is in question here and may take time and real proof that things have changed. It would be nice if everyone could play well in the sandbox, I'm sure folks here and other places are all for working together, as long as it is truly that and not the influenced exclusionary views and actions of the past.
I think it would be best if we focus on specific issues and cases. The cases I cited above, for example. Or the case of the state perennially failing to direct resources to the state parks, allowing buildings and roads to crumble. Or the case of endlessly expanding illegal dirt bike trails.
 
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NJCoastal

Scout
Oct 19, 2021
43
19
69
Mount Laurel, NJ
My opinion is that a reasonable amount of acreage within the Pinelands National Reserve should be set aside specifically for this type (mudders) of outdoor recreational vehicle activity, as depicted in the "PINE MUD Documentary. To do whatever one pleases, in anyplace they want, is absolutely unacceptable. I would like to believe that an adequate amount of space can be found somewhere within the Pinelands National Reserve.

Pinelands National Reserve NJ.JPG
 
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TommyP

Explorer
Mar 30, 2022
196
185
Clementon
thomaspluck.substack.com
I’m sorry I couldn’t make it, but I am glad it was productive.
And that Land Rover driver must have thought they had an old Discovery. Some friends of mine have an LR3, and they take it camping. Or rather, the dealer rents them one to take camping while theirs is being detailed. Seriously! At least in Europe…
 
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Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,751
8,384
I hope no one is arguing that we shouldn't close those kinds of "roads."

I agree that if it wasn't a road and now is because of off-road damage or the FFS making it, then there is a good chance it should be closed. The problem is other roads in the area are then closed needlessly. If they just blocked the roads that were not there before the damage or bulldozing the majority of the public would be respectful and agreeable to the closings.
 

G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
51
Burlington County
I’m sorry I couldn’t make it, but I am glad it was productive.
And that Land Rover driver must have thought they had an old Discovery. Some friends of mine have an LR3, and they take it camping. Or rather, the dealer rents them one to take camping while theirs is being detailed. Seriously! At least in Europe…
Happy to catch up with you on another occasion.
 
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G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
51
Burlington County
Dirt bike trails are for the most part fire breaks made by the FFS. You never will eliminate that. Don't blame the bikers. To me they do the least amount of damage.
I don't know what proportion of the illegal dirt bike riding is on plow lines, compared to how much is on newly-created dirt bike trails, but, regardless, illegal is illegal. Eliminate, no, but there are ways to get it better under control. And yes, I do blame the bikers. They are violating state regs. And the damage they do has not been evaluated, but the noise, visual stimuli, air pollution, and other impacts are undoubtedly a big problem for wildlife. Is it a lesser amount, compared to the ATV traffic and the illegal 4WD traffic (i.e., people leaving the road system to drive in wildlife habitat)? That may be true.
 
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G. Russell Juelg

Explorer
Jul 31, 2006
284
51
Burlington County
My opinion is that a reasonable amount of acreage within the Pinelands National Reserve should be set aside specifically for this type (mudders) of outdoor recreational vehicle activity, as depicted in the "PINE MUD Documentary. To do whatever one pleases, in anyplace they want, is absolutely unacceptable. I would like to believe that an adequate amount of space can be found somewhere within the Pinelands National Reserve.

View attachment 17702
To me, although this seems like a plausible direction, it always comes down to specifics. Right off the bat, you have the problem that the Pinelands is the most strictly regulated land in the state. People have been looking for decades, and they always come up empty. Seems a lot more likely that something could be found outside the Pinelands.
 
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