Garoutte Tavern in Historic Pleasant Mills, New Jersey

pinelandpaddler said:
"Michael and Sophie inherited Sophie's Father's Inn in Pleasant Mills, New Jersey and they renamed it to Lafayette Tavern.."

What is your source for this? FYI, the Wharton Ledgers do not mention Gaurotte by name. I'm going to the State archives today to view the entry in the ledgers. I'll report back later today.
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Its called rounding it down using repetitive logic based on facts. Quakers were not allowed to own or operate taverns and it is a fact that garoutte was a catholic and he married a quakeress and they both converted to methodists. Its also a fact that he owned and operated a tavern that was formerly just an inn. Clearly this inn belonged to his wifes father James the quaker before it belonged to Garoutte. And according to the Budd's Father's Notes on The Wharton Ledgers Garoutte's Tavern was named The LaFayette. Additional proof of Garoutte operating an Inn and Tavern and a Stageline is found in that newspaper publication dated 1844 detailing the history of stagelines from 1700s to mid 1800s and more proof is found in the book iron in the pines which details Garoutte's stageline and Tavern.
 
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G.C.Johnson said:
Its called rounding it down using repetitive logic based on facts. Quakers were not allowed to own or operate taverns and it is a fact that garoutte was a catholic and he married a quakeress and they both converted to methodists. Its also a fact that he owned and operated a tavern that was formerly just an inn. Clearly this inn belonged to his wifes father James the quaker before it belonged to Garoutte. And according to the Budd's Father's Notes on The Wharton Ledgers Garoutte's Tavern was named The LaFayette. Additional proof of Garoutte operating an Inn and Tavern and a Stageline is found in that newspaper publication dated 1844 detailing the history of stagelines from 1700s to mid 1800s and more proof is found in the book iron in the pines which details Garoutte's stageline and Tavern.
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Garoutte was stabbed in the side by Hessian soldiers at an Inn by little egg harbor just 1 day after the battle of chestnut neck which is only 12 miles from pleasant mills, he was left for dead and picked up by a quaker james smith and taken back to the quakers inn.

Records in pleasant mills says garoutte was a lieutenant officer for rev. War.

A marriage record says he married his quakeress bride in pleasant mills on 28th just 22 days after they rescued him from death.
 
"Its called rounding it down using repetitive logic based on facts."

No need to be a smart ass. What I'm asking for is your source material concerning the inn owned by Sophie's father. Such documentation would greatly assist us in piecing together this puzzle.
 
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pinelandpaddler said:
"Its called rounding it down using repetitive logic based on facts."

No need to be a smart ass. What I'm asking for is your source material concerning the inn owned by Sophie's father. Such documentation would greatly assist us in piecing together this puzzle.
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Source material that James was an Quaker and an innkeeper is in Garoutte History Book from 1975 third edition. There is a source for it there I have to look later.

Repetitive logic is a scientific method for logic and statements in maths and logic. Like true and false statements.

For genealogy you examine legal documents like a birth certificate to deduce where the person was born, what day month and year who the parents are on the record what doctor delivered and declared, nurses and all details of the event. The document obviously is proof the child belonged the parents named on the document or if the names are misspelled on the document it can be cleared up with other legal documents with the correct names to make it consistent. Then the parents birth certificates prove who their parents are. So if you go to court to prove the claim you come from President George Washington for example you show them your birth certificate that proves who your parents are and you show them your parents birth certificates that shows dads dad name is George Washington born on x day, month year and where. That proves your grandpa is President George Washington for example.

The secondary sources from published materials are obviously based on some legal documents not all are listed as sources so you have to figure it out by getting the original document to prove the statement as true.

Thats why real authentic genealogy and history is such hard work and takes a long time. It takes a lot of examination of authentic and certified documentation and reasoning taking into account of historical facts to be sure it is consistent and logical and true.

sometimes you can figure out things way ahead before gathering additional facts just because all the statements are true.

A doctor of history showed me how. He also showed me how full of shit numerous so called academic histories are that made it into history books. Because there is no proof to prove the statements. He showed me how they basically just make shit up 60 percent of the time.
 
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Like for example:

A, B, C
A is true
B is false
A implies B therefore C
A is not B therefore C
A is B therefore C
A is B therefore not C
A is not B therefore not C

I'm sure you can see the many different possibilites.

Out of all these Paradoxies can come too like this statement:

This statement is false.

Well obviously the statement is both true and false at the same time. Its true that the statment is false because the statement gives the premise that it is false but it is true that the statement is false.

A, B, C

Premise, Conclusion.

A + B, therefore C
A NOT B, therefore C

It's just a matter of getting the proof and writing a logical statement based on facts.
 
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And to further demonstrate how our american history is riddled with nonsense:

They claim LaFayette arrived in the Carolinas in 1778. Well guess what? There is no proof to authenticate that statement. You show me the docking records that says LaFayette arrived in 1778 and I will believe it, but only after checking those records thoroughly. What's more that doesn't add up is the claim that LaFayette arrived in 1778 magically when there was an Armada of British ships blockading any outside vessels from coming in or out of the american coasts in 1778.

LaFayette also didn't sign his name LaFayette because he was a French Nobleman with the hereditary title of Marquis of La Fayette. Nobleman did not sign their titles as their name. That's just not how the nobility did things. LaFayette's Father was also the Marquis of LaFayette and he was in the Seven Years War you can see his name in a few books written about the events from 1750 to 1757. LaFayette also married his 1st cousin who was 12 years old. Marriage was arranged by family and the catholic church. We know that's true because of an authentic document that proves it.

I'm not trying to discredit LaFayette I am just showing that he must have arrived much earlier than 1778. The King himself sent LaFayette to the colonies. France was waging a proxy war with Britan through the american rebels and their indian allies as far back as 1774.

Virtually nothing on the internet can be trusted. The only things that can be trusted in legal genealogy is certified records. There is even crap that was auto generated and made it into google books.

SAR and DAR will tell you the same thing and they only accept legal certified documents to prove descent and service. They do not accept anything over the internet. Stuff has to be highlighted from published books and certified documents to prove all statements and legal legitimate descent.

It is very important to preserve our true american history. This is our country and our liberty and our patriot ancestors deserve to be respected and honored and their graves derserve repsect and preservation. Our country is a shining beacon of liberty. But today there is all kinds of fraud so we have to preserve the truth.
 
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This find a grave site says he was buried in Estellville. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=157916768
G.C.Johnson said:
Estelleville?? The record says he is buried in the Methodist Episcopal Church in Pleasant Mills, New Jersey.
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i just got back from there and did not find the grave.There is some prickly pear but not wall to wall like Pleasant Mills:-) This graveyard was much smaller and i went completely over it twice.Most stones were legible but maybe two dozen small partially buried stones were not. However your Michael died in 1829? The church here was not built till 1834.Then again a graveyard often took shape before a church was built. If your certain Pleasnat Mills is the spot despite what this find a grave site claims then that graveyard is worth another look since I was far from completeing a complete survey of that graveyard but the one in Estellville I went over pretty good.Here are some pics i took of that graveyard and church.
 

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G.C.Johnson said:
Thank you so much for doing this!! If you find it I will send you money!!
Click to expand...
No need for money.Glad to help If I can and Lord Knows I"ve spent plenty of time in graveyards looking for my own kin and have had folks in KY,WV and NC help me out a lot when I couldn't get down there to look though I have since then.I will get back to batsto and try again when it's a little cooler and I have boots on:-) Prickly Pear is our only native cactus here and you don't find it in many places but when you do the place is usually loaded and the pleasant Mills graveyard is loaded:-) I wonder how they mow that crap,somebody obviously must mow there occasionally since the grave yard isn't head high in weeds but their not much grass either,lot of moss,lichen (lichen covers much of the writing on the stones as well,another hindrance) and of course cactus.
 
G.C.Johnson said:
Its called rounding it down using repetitive logic based on facts. Quakers were not allowed to own or operate taverns and it is a fact that garoutte was a catholic and he married a quakeress and they both converted to methodists. Its also a fact that he owned and operated a tavern that was formerly just an inn. Clearly this inn belonged to his wifes father James the quaker before it belonged to Garoutte. And according to the Budd's Father's Notes on The Wharton Ledgers Garoutte's Tavern was named The LaFayette. Additional proof of Garoutte operating an Inn and Tavern and a Stageline is found in that newspaper publication dated 1844 detailing the history of stagelines from 1700s to mid 1800s and more proof is found in the book iron in the pines which details Garoutte's stageline and Tavern.
Click to expand...
The info I found states Garoutte was a fried of Lafayettes,could explain the name of the Inn.
 
G.C.Johnson said:
Source material that James was an Quaker and an innkeeper is in Garoutte History Book from 1975 third edition. There is a source for it there I have to look later.

Repetitive logic is a scientific method for logic and statements in maths and logic. Like true and false statements.

For genealogy you examine legal documents like a birth certificate to deduce where the person was born, what day month and year who the parents are on the record what doctor delivered and declared, nurses and all details of the event. The document obviously is proof the child belonged the parents named on the document or if the names are misspelled on the document it can be cleared up with other legal documents with the correct names to make it consistent. Then the parents birth certificates prove who their parents are. So if you go to court to prove the claim you come from President George Washington for example you show them your birth certificate that proves who your parents are and you show them your parents birth certificates that shows dads dad name is George Washington born on x day, month year and where. That proves your grandpa is President George Washington for example.

The secondary sources from published materials are obviously based on some legal documents not all are listed as sources so you have to figure it out by getting the original document to prove the statement as true.

Thats why real authentic genealogy and history is such hard work and takes a long time. It takes a lot of examination of authentic and certified documentation and reasoning taking into account of historical facts to be sure it is consistent and logical and true.

sometimes you can figure out things way ahead before gathering additional facts just because all the statements are true.

A doctor of history showed me how. He also showed me how full of shit numerous so called academic histories are that made it into history books. Because there is no proof to prove the statements. He showed me how they basically just make shit up 60 percent of the time.
Click to expand...
No one descends from George Washington.He had no legitimate kids though his wife Martha Custis I believe had kids by an earlier marriage. I am apparently cousins too Him though since my 9th great grandfather was Augustine Warner and he was also Georges great grandfather. Also cousins to Jefferson,Henry Clay and Robert Lee all through my grandfather Henry Isham who makes all four of those guys cousins to each other.Moms family were some of the first jamestown settlers and I think most of southern Va in the 1600's was my kin.Dads side has John Howland a Mayflower passenger as ancestor through the leamings and hands that settled Cold Spring village in cape may county after they left Plymouth.
 
G.C.Johnson said:
Like for example:

A, B, C
A is true
B is false
A implies B therefore C
A is not B therefore C
A is B therefore C
A is B therefore not C
A is not B therefore not C

I'm sure you can see the many different possibilites.

Out of all these Paradoxies can come too like this statement:

This statement is false.

Well obviously the statement is both true and false at the same time. Its true that the statment is false because the statement gives the premise that it is false but it is true that the statement is false.

A, B, C

Premise, Conclusion.

A + B, therefore C
A NOT B, therefore C

It's just a matter of getting the proof and writing a logical statement based on facts.
Click to expand...
Kind of like a person who says "What is Truth"? You ask them if they believe in absolutes and they respond No, Absolutely not:-)
 
manumuskin said:
No one descends from George Washington.He had no legitimate kids though his wife Martha Custis I believe had kids by an earlier marriage. I am apparently cousins too Him though since my 9th great grandfather was Augustine Warner and he was also Georges great grandfather. Also cousins to Jefferson,Henry Clay and Robert Lee all through my grandfather Henry Isham who makes all four of those guys cousins to each other.Moms family were some of the first jamestown settlers and I think most of southern Va in the 1600's was my kin.Dads side has John Howland a Mayflower passenger as ancestor through the leamings and hands that settled Cold Spring village in cape may county after they left Plymouth.
Click to expand...

I know no one descends from George Washington he lost his testicles :p I was only giving an example on how to legally prove legitimate descent from an ancestor.

But it is possible George got a woman pregnant early on and the govt is protecting the line. I have seen claims that he had many illegitimate children with slaves. But again there is no proof for any of those things.
 
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manumuskin said:
No one descends from George Washington.He had no legitimate kids though his wife Martha Custis I believe had kids by an earlier marriage. I am apparently cousins too Him though since my 9th great grandfather was Augustine Warner and he was also Georges great grandfather. Also cousins to Jefferson,Henry Clay and Robert Lee all through my grandfather Henry Isham who makes all four of those guys cousins to each other.Moms family were some of the first jamestown settlers and I think most of southern Va in the 1600's was my kin.Dads side has John Howland a Mayflower passenger as ancestor through the leamings and hands that settled Cold Spring village in cape may county after they left Plymouth.
Click to expand...

Then you are without a doubt an American. :)
 
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Even have four grandfathers that supposedly hooked up with Indian women.One Cherokee,One Shawnee a Wampanoag daughter and one I know not which.Problem with Indians is they had very poor documentation:-) The Cherokee seems to be the best chance at being legit.Problem is half of the geneaologists want so bad to be Indian they will make it up and the other half do nothing but try to disprove every one elses Indian connections. If you wind up with a red skin in your woodpile you can be sure to find pages upon pages of people fighting over weather they were really red or not. In any case they were all at least eight generations back so I"ll take my feathers off now and pick up my bagpipes and my flintlock and be proud of my Hillbillie,Hugenots and Quakers:-)
 
J
manumuskin said:
This find a grave site says he was buried in Estellville. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=157916768

i just got back from there and did not find the grave.There is some prickly pear but not wall to wall like Pleasant Mills:) This graveyard was much smaller and i went completely over it twice.Most stones were legible but maybe two dozen small partially buried stones were not. However your Michael died in 1829? The church here was not built till 1834.Then again a graveyard often took shape before a church was built. If your certain Pleasnat Mills is the spot despite what this find a grave site claims then that graveyard is worth another look since I was far from completeing a complete survey of that graveyard but the one in Estellville I went over pretty good.Here are some pics i took of that graveyard and church.
Click to expand...

It's possible he is buried there without a marker only way to know for sure is check the records.
 
manumuskin said:
Even have four grandfathers that supposedly hooked up with Indian women.One Cherokee,One Shawnee a Wampanoag daughter and one I know not which.Problem with Indians is they had very poor documentation:) The Cherokee seems to be the best chance at being legit.Problem is half of the geneaologists want so bad to be Indian they will make it up and the other half do nothing but try to disprove every one elses Indian connections. If you wind up with a red skin in your woodpile you can be sure to find pages upon pages of people fighting over weather they were really red or not. In any case they were all at least eight generations back so I"ll take my feathers off now and pick up my bagpipes and my flintlock and be proud of my Hillbillie,Hugenots and Quakers:)
Click to expand...

I didn't know that! Why on earth would they fight over something like that.
 
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